Redditch v City

[andy]

Your point wasnt about not liking Andy Preece. It was about blaming him, and him alone, for our current predicment.

What ever that is.

Very hard to discuss unless the present predicament is defined.

[Deleted]

It has been defined Andy - Squad to small since beginning of the season! That was either by accident or design, I believe by design, and who is responsible for creating the business plan for the playing side? As far as I'm aware that is the responsibility of the manager.
I'm sorry, but isn't our lack of players what other people are also talking about? maybe I misunderstood what GC, Manc and Colin been saying.

[DrAgony]

Why weren't all these 'experts' on the squad so vocal prior to the Telford game?

They are purely negative remarks - to be constructive criticism would require the names of available, affordable additions to the squad. That would require input from a genuine expert, which I eagerly await reading.

[Deleted]

No it wouldn't, its not our job to find the players for the team, however, its not beyond the realms of any individual, and they certainly don't have to be experts to figure out the squads too small. At any one time in the season, every football team will have something along the lines of two players out injured, two more playing with knocks, one off form, one suspended, and maybe in non-league, one unavailable for work commitments etc. With a squad of 18, you're effectively down to a bare-bones 11.
Providing names of available, affordable additions to the squad would be userping the authority and position of the manager, and disrespecting the present position of those players and their teams. How constructive would that be?
People have commented on the small squad since before the season started, this is nothing new! and isn't negative, it certainly not negative when back in August Andy outlined the same problems of a small squad, with injuries bringing it down to a 12 man squad, and its not negative now. Its just fact. like people commented on rotundness of Christian Moore, it wasn't negative, it was just fact!
What can be construed as critical (and not negative) is whether the decision to opt for such a small squad was a wise one, and was the person who adopted this policy correct in doing so. Now that is open for debate.
Is it negative to suggest the Bee Movie doesn't work because it attempts at anthropomorphism fail because unlike other Dreamworks films, the bee actaully talks to humans too? Or that it doesn't work as a childrens film because the concept of "sueing humanity for stealing honey" is alien to children? Or do I have to be a bee or a lawyer to provide those views?
Who is Craig Brown?

[andy]

I do know what I said though, and it wasnt about a small squad. I would have factually said that we had a squad of 18-20 (before any injuries kicked in).

Which is moreorless the same in number as the squad is now.

Keepers: Belford, Wright, McDonnell (3)
Defence: Clarke, Spencer, Smith, Khan, Gill, Ward, Heeley (7)
Midfield: Clegg, Nwadike, Colley, Walker, Price, Findlay (6)
Strikers: Webster, Danks, Wilding, Wood (4)

Six of those were unavailable for the Redditch game through injury and one through suspension, You cant play with two 'keepers and RD appears unwilling to start with NC, so
that leaves 13. On top of that, at least three of the others were playing with knocks, and Wilding has a long-term groin problem.

During the game, a further two of them (not ones playing with knocks) picked up injuries.

I am guessing that the 2 or 3 players RD has said he is looking to bring in will probably be cover for Smith, Spencer, Khan and Gill.

Harder to bring in players in midfield (i suspect midfield is the real target area) when as a result of injuries earlier in the season to McDonnell, Smith, Khan, Burley and Colley an element of the budget would have gone on McKeown, Barrett, Doran and Liburd.

Despite all of that, it was still a strong side on the field (none of the youth teamers were brought in or on) and I dont think injuries especially curtailed our ability to play.

I still havent got the definition of the present predicament for which AP is to blame, I'm afraid. You'll have to state the blindingly obvious.

[mazeythe2nd]

worst performance of the season, could clearly see the players were tired though and was a similar story against telford, problems of a small squad.

[ac]

Does it really matter whether Preece is to blame or not at this stage? it's up to Dryden to get some good signings in to bulk up and improve the squad and as supporters we should be getting behind the team and management, not worrying about who's to blame for it all!

[zeke]

Short term they should play Matt Dinsmore. We've lost the last 2 games 3-0. What have we got to lose

[mazeythe2nd]

dinsmore played in the evesham game (i think it was) and looked good with plenty of fight.

[Deleted]

andy said:

I do know what I said though, and it wasnt about a small squad. I would have factually said that we had a squad of 18-20 (before any injuries kicked in).

Which is moreorless the same in number as the squad is now.

Keepers: Belford, Wright, McDonnell (3)
Defence: Clarke, Spencer, Smith, Khan, Gill, Ward, Heeley (7)
Midfield: Clegg, Nwadike, Colley, Walker, Price, Findlay (6)
Strikers: Webster, Danks, Wilding, Wood (4)

Six of those were unavailable for the Redditch game through injury and one through suspension, You cant play with two 'keepers and RD appears unwilling to start with NC, so
that leaves 13. On top of that, at least three of the others were playing with knocks, and Wilding has a long-term groin problem.

During the game, a further two of them (not ones playing with knocks) picked up injuries.

I am guessing that the 2 or 3 players RD has said he is looking to bring in will probably be cover for Smith, Spencer, Khan and Gill.

Harder to bring in players in midfield (i suspect midfield is the real target area) when as a result of injuries earlier in the season to McDonnell, Smith, Khan, Burley and Colley an element of the budget would have gone on McKeown, Barrett, Doran and Liburd.

Despite all of that, it was still a strong side on the field (none of the youth teamers were brought in or on) and I dont think injuries especially curtailed our ability to play.

I still havent got the definition of the present predicament for which AP is to blame, I'm afraid. You'll have to state the blindingly obvious.

Yes this is what you said Andy

The injury update on the official website carries little in the way of good news for the short-term.

Hits us especially hard in the midfield area, with Findlay (definitely) and Colley (likely) to miss the start (thats my interpretation regarding Nick), with the likelihood that Clarke and Wardy will have to drop back to cover for Smudger (likely out) and Shabs (definitely out).

Would suggest the following as probable starting line-up

Danny

Hodnett, Raps, Clarke

Ward and Burlo as wing-backs

Gary Walker, Macca and Clegg

Webster and Danks

Possibly Wilding in for Walker in a 3-4-3 which looks a strong 11 especially if Smudger can make it back and start instead of Danny Hodnett.)

Who does that leave on the subs bench?

Well, one of Walker or Wilding, Troy, AP plus Who have I forgotten?

Suddenly, an 18 becomes 14. Looks like another 2-4 weeks before it becomes a 17, although Smudger and Nick may come back earlier.

Of the triallists, only Kamran Abassi has had any real continuity, but right back isnt really the issue (unless it allows Wardy to push forward to strengthen midfield).

Seven tough starting games - better look to the stars to hope we dont pick up any more injuries, especially longer-term ones.

The woes of a small squad, with a 18 becoming a 14 were there at the beginning of the season, and have been there ever since. for each player coming back, another will inevitably be injured, or suspended or lose form, thats life! However good the 14 are, trying to get them to perform week in week out over a season is asking too much of too few, they're only human. We go into the season unable to think of the name of subs, we get to New Years Day still unable to name subs (who is Craig Brown??? )
My view is that this was a high risk policy, which must have been presented to the Board and which was used for the basis of player budgets throughout the season. Maybe Preece created a rod for his own back with this policy, maybe he asked for more and was told "well you said it would be fine and we've budgeted around that"
I do blame the manager for the policy (if you're given £200,000 player budget and get it wrong, then who else is to blame? If I screw up my sales budgets then I blame no-one but myself, if I take on one highly paid guy to do everything instead of 4 reasonably paid people to give me coverage, and my highly paid man wraps his car round a tree and spends 3 months in hospital in traction, then its no-ones fault but mine that the team don't perform!!!) although I did say that maybe others within the club could have questioned that policy, or maybe they did.
AC is partly right, whether Preece is to blame or not, and of course the job now is for the new management to identify shortfall and to put a plan in place to address it. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the problem even without going to a game, and its fair to ask the question "How did this come about?" and then discuss it? Put it another way, if a 14 man fit City squad were running away with the league, would it be just as wrong to praise Preece for his management acumen? I don't think so, it cuts both ways.

[Deleted]

Who is Craig Brown??

[DazaB]

He lifted the Worcestershire Senior Urn in 2006 with two broken arms.

[wh]

I do blame the manager for the policy (if you're given £200,000 player budget and get it wrong, then who else is to blame?.

AP was given 200K!, where's that info from?

[StopfordianWCFC]

jcp said:

It has been defined Andy - Squad to small since beginning of the season! That was either by accident or design, I believe by design, and who is responsible for creating the business plan for the playing side? As far as I'm aware that is the responsibility of the manager.
I'm sorry, but isn't our lack of players what other people are also talking about? maybe I misunderstood what GC, Manc and Colin been saying.

I'm not going to get embroiled in this but clearly the loss of shabs / spencer is a blow.

My own view is that typically you need a maximum of 45 / 46 points to stay up in 'a three go down' league - we are effectively past 2/3rd's towards this target. This now gives RD the chance to give the existing players enough rope... and to bring in some new faces to see whether they fit the bill or not. Its hopefully all about planning for next season now.

In the short term, we are up a creek and using a slightly limp paddle, but thats the way of things and injuries often happen during intensive fixture periods such as the Christmas session. In many respects I am heartened that RD has managed to harvest significant points without being forced into panic signings which we can regret later. Lets get off the backs of the boys who are really up against it at the moment and look to back RD and the King with our support.

Things were wrong at the start of the season and I expressed my doubts about the squad after watching us play Vauxhall, Stalyvegas and Guisely in quick succession. RD and the King have performed a minor miracle since then. They have now been dealt a few blows, but if ultimately we make a secure mid-table bearth at the end of the season, it would have been a position I would have gladly accepted after the Guisely debarcle.

In the words of BDS 'Up the City'

[Deleted]

wh said:

I do blame the manager for the policy (if you're given £200,000 player budget and get it wrong, then who else is to blame?.

AP was given 200K!, where's that info from?

Shareholder information, that figure is out of date, thats 2004, but it doesn't come down! thats for playing staff wages and expenses. That doesn't include transfer fees.
A manager isn't "given" that, a fair portion is already allocated of course, but it gives an idea of what kind of budget a manager has to keep within. Its not alot is it, so you need a fair bit of skill in managing it.

[Deleted]

admin said:

He lifted the Worcestershire Senior Urn in 2006 with two broken arms.

Who is he? he was on the bench on New Years Day, but who is he?

[andy]

I dont know why I am getting dragged into this Brookie hates AP thing. I may have said that the squad was looking thin, but Doran, Barrett and Liburd were all brought in. As was previously mentioned. As was Abassi.

As for would I object if the manager shouted/climbed the wall at me. Well quite frankly, I cant ever imagine getting myself into that position. And in front of my own kids? Even less so.

So leave me out of whatever this is about, please. I was interested by knowing what the issue was supposed to be, but as there doesnt seem to be one after the third time of asking, its all a bit too 2007 for me.

[Deleted]

andy said:

As for would I object if the manager shouted/climbed the wall at me. Well quite frankly, I cant ever imagine getting myself into that position. And in front of my own kids? Even less so.

Neither would I andy, never had a manager shout / climb a wall to get at me ever, never given them any reason to - but just walking out with the crowd from the Canal End (the opposite end to where the players walk off bear in mind) trying to keep the lad from tripping on the terracing. You don't expect the manager to jump up on the wall f'ing and blinding at someone (not me) and trying to get them down on the pitch for a fight. Quite scary and unneccesary.
Never had any kind of apology either

[B*ue dragonstander]

mazeythe2nd said:

worst performance of the season, could clearly see the players were tired though and was a similar story against telford, problems of a small squad.

Agree. We looked as if we had given our all in the previous three or four games and it has caught up with us. We will be back - hopefully starting Saturday v Hinckley.

[B*ue dragonstander]

mancunianwcfc said:

In the words of BDS 'Up the City'

It wil probably get a mention in the Oxford dictionary of quotations one day..

[B*ue dragonstander]

zeke said:

Short term they should play Matt Dinsmore. We've lost the last 2 games 3-0. What have we got to lose

I was wondering if he might appear on the bench. 2 goals against Evesham is no mean feat. I wouldnt be surprised to see him appear soon. has to be worth a look especially as - for some reason - Troy doesnt seem to quite fit.

[gobby cow]

I cannot see anything wrong in giving the youngsters a chance, we have some fine talent in the squad that has come up through the ranks and I dont doubt there are a few more youngsters who have a very bright future ahead of them.

Who would have thought that Mike Wright would have been voted player of the month with Troy second at the beginning of the season?

[wh]

I get the feeling that a few old war horses for defence will be on RD's wish list though before he worries about the front line.

But Dinsmore would be a great shout for the bench at least (if he is available)

[gobby cow]

If the lads can get a win under their belt even under the present conditions I reckon it will give them that will to carry on. They all have played so well in December, they werent that bad against Telford, Telford are an excellent team, that is the standard we need to reach to challange for promotion but we wont get that until we have a big enough squad were the players are fighting for places.

I do still think we need some proper leadership on the pitch, that would make a huge difference when thinks are going wrong.

[StopfordianWCFC]

wh said:

I get the feeling that a few old war horses for defence will be on RD's wish list though before he worries about the front line.

But Dinsmore would be a great shout for the bench at least (if he is available)

I think a defence of Heely, Smith, Clarke and Ward could do a temporary job, but yes we do need at least one other to provide covert. I still think its the midfield where we have the long term problems and have done since the start of the season. It was the area that got constantly exposed against Telford when we begun to run out of steam and it was there that they took control.

You can have the best defence in the world but its no help if the opposition have all the possession.

[Deleted]

2 spot on posts Manc.

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

It is no use putting the blame on to AP. We have a new manager now and it is up to him to sort out the mess the City seem to be in.

Gobby I am surprised at you being hung over when you favourite team were playing the next day. Shame on you.

[Deleted]

webbtony said:

It is no use puttinhgg the blame on to AP. We have a new manager now and it is up to him to sort out the mess the City seem to be in.

Gobby I am surprised at you being hung over when you favourite team were playing the next day. Shame on you.

Many people were not so magnanimous when it came to Graham Allner. Some even struggle to write his name after all these years!

[dorothy]

As I see the issues currently, we are clearly short of FIT contracted players.

Danny is a long term problem, I don't see Cameron as a replacement (the better keeper at The Valley was Redditch's) young Wright was okay ,just lacking experience.

Hindsight says it,s a shame we didn't keep Liburd and Burley, but we'd all be great managers with that gift. We have not found a replacement for Justin Thompson. Clarke is good but a different type of player.

There is no midfield dynamo. The worker or the player to take the sting out of a game. Whatever your viewsof him as a player Tom Warner was the worker, in the face of the opposition and constantly on the move. Cleggy has shown flashes of being the player he should be with his background in the game. Unfortunately Macca has not impessed me yet.

Up front we do not have the player with a killer instinct. Danks is top scorer with 5 in the league. Hyde have 4 players with 7+. Telfords top scorer has approx 1/3 of their goals Danks has about 1/6 of ours. I realise that this indicates that our squad is all chipping in, but there is something "right" about a forward pair scoring the majority of a teams goals.

That said, against Redditch we were beaten by 2 very well taken goals and a poor one right at the death. Against Telford we played reasonably against a foul wind in the first half and the conditions improved considerably in the second denying us that edge.

Our lofty position in the league hides the fact that we have played more games than most below us. Mid table mediocrity beckons. I'm prepared to see us lose so long as we play football, defence, midfield and attack. That is all we should ask.

[si1268]

darrena said:

Our lofty position in the league hides the fact that we have played more games than most below us. Mid table mediocrity beckons. I'm prepared to see us lose so long as we play football, defence, midfield and attack. That is all we should ask.

I might be a long time before you ever see "football" being played. I reckon in a season you might get a hour of football and the rest is rush about, hoof and hope. Still there's alot of rubbish in this league so mid table should be maintained. Then next season we'll have a better idea about RD.