where are we heading

[steveb]

where can we go from here? i walked out last night and nearly turned in my season ticket. i am disheartened by the whole situation at the club from the board down.
someone mentioned a new broom does this include the board. has the board really got the club close to there heart.
i can't belive i feel this way someone help

[althom]

To be fair, the board appointed AP who we all thought was going to perform miracles.
AP then signed one or two competent players, but in the main signed sub-standard players who are not up it.
When it became obvious that things were'nt working, they dispensed with AP's services.
Lets hope the new manager can pull it round - whoever that may be!

[colinlayland]

steveb said:

where can we go from here? i walked out last night and nearly turned in my season ticket. i am disheartened by the whole situation at the club from the board down.
someone mentioned a new broom does this include the board. has the board really got the club close to there heart.
i can't belive i feel this way someone help

Where are we going from here? In my case it will be to Guiseley on Saturday to watch the City win 3-1 in the cup. I too am a season ticket holder. I too am disheartened by what is going on down the lane but I will wait and see what the new manager is going to offer. There must be some new faces coming in, and that must mean the Directors coming up with the pennies, and if that does not work, then we must start looking at the wider picture.

[andy]

Better start looking at the wider picture straight away then, Colin. I,m with you on your qnalysis though I wasnt there last night. After last Monday, I wasnt at all surprised. Nuneaton - a side that plays wing-backs very effectively.

But why should a new manager get a bigger budget than that that was available to Andy Preece.

Maybe there was something behind the scenes that I dont know about with Andy Preece. If not, I think the Club has got itself confused about its own agenda.

Years of messages that the Club can not go anywhere (performance-wise) until the ground move. Feel-good announcements about the new ground a fex weeks back. Yes, the process is ongoing but there is no planning permission yet, and no money available to the Club until SGL is sold in 20-24 months time. Preece has assembled a young squad, which one assumed was going to grow together under his tutelage. Should we expect more than mid-table under those conditions? Not in my book.

But the new 'mood' over the ground move (just how many fan was that meant to attract 'back' - was it five or even ten?) was not matched by the results profile. So, Preece went. For whatever reason, jumped or pushed, we dont know.

Well done to JB, Stanty and Carts for stepping in, 1-2-1 in results is about what Preecey was getting. Its given an independent view on what was wrong, but wasnt that known before? What are we left with - a squad that AP was able to get results from on many an occasion loses confidence - and will probably be broken up. But is there any money to rebuild? No, of course there isnt.

So, what does the wider picture hold?

[ctod1959]

A measured summary from Andy. I can't answer the question though, although we shouldn't get too downhearted about last night. The current squad has never played well consistently and there is bound to be low morale in the dressing room in the current climate of uncertainty. In recent years Danny's goalkeeping heroics and more than our fair share of late, face saving goals have papered over the cracks. The remainder of this season now is about maintaining a mid table position and ensuring we don't get drawn into the bottom six. (A Trophy run would be a real boost.)

The new manager will have his work cut out to bring about any dramatic improvement, certainly before the ground move.

[andy]

Can a new manager get more out of the existing squad than AP, or the Barton/Stant/Carty combo (a management team that surely isnt going to be deficient on the motivation front). If so, fair play to them.

If not, then it is like for like (financially) within the same budget. If performances are the same, then the evidence suggests the crowds will stay at their recent level or drop further. Which means the budget has to drop surely - next year, if not this.

Which means the new manager will have to do the same with less. But the expectation of the floating and the non-attending supporters will be that he delivers more.

I see the wider picture as a bit like that painting of a cube which is an optical illusion. People expect it to go one way when it changes direction, but it doesnt. Its very hard to work out in which direction it is going.

[alwaysnextyear]

Down !

[colinlayland]

We could always bring up the old hot chestnut debate of, if Hereford can do it,why not the City.

[alwaysnextyear]

Colin, where do we start ?
Excellent manager capable of building new teams every 3 years. Excellent manager with great contacts adept at picking up young players from League clubs. Excellent manager not scared to get rid of old lags and take a chance on youth. Excellent manager with a proven track record of signing young potential,nurturing it, and reselling on for a fat fee eg Paul Parry gone on to play for Wales.
Board ( G Turner ) that backs manager ( G Turner ) to produce the goods season in and season out. Manager and players that are capable of rising to the occasion especially in the " big " money making games. Hereford are living the dream, City are still thinking about it on a back of a 25 year old fag packet.

[Deleted]

andy said:

Years of messages that the Club can not go anywhere (performance-wise) until the ground move.

There's a lot in that statement. If the club truly believe they can't get anywhere performance-wise without a ground move, then thats where they will get - nowhere. It almost becomes a mantra and its wrong.
You never heard the same cries from Hinckley, who did pretty well at their ramshackle little ground, or Nuneaton, or anywhere else where a move is on the cards. To hear managers talking about "it'll be better with the new ground" is so negative. A Manager should be driven to put together the best team he can with the resources he has at hand today! Not tommorrow or next year, but today. And to do that he has to forget any talk of ground moves.
Truth be told we are no nearer a ground move today than we were 12 months ago, and we won't be in 12 months time either - but in the meantime we have to keep playing football, and keep building the best team we can with todays resources, however meagre they will be.
As a contrast, take Hereford United. Ground sold, company who bought ground in liquidation, complex short term lease arrangments, under CVA (twice!), involved in ground move plans but getting nowhere. Whats more in their case the manager has every right to talk about the trading conditions of the club as he's also the CEO!! Yet you don't hear Graham Turner bemoaning the financial situation, or how much easier it will be after a ground move. In the main he gets on with preparing the best football team he can, with the resources he has to hand, today! And throughout all the turmoil they've won promotion back into the Football League, andare doing quite nicely in the Division 2.

[Deleted]

alwaysnextyear said:

Colin, where do we start ?
Excellent manager capable of building new teams every 3 years. Excellent manager with great contacts adept at picking up young players from League clubs. Excellent manager not scared to get rid of old lags and take a chance on youth. Excellent manager with a proven track record of signing young potential,nurturing it, and reselling on for a fat fee eg Paul Parry gone on to play for Wales.
Board ( G Turner ) that backs manager ( G Turner ) to produce the goods season in and season out. Manager and players that are capable of rising to the occasion especially in the " big " money making games. Hereford are living the dream, City are still thinking about it on a back of a 25 year old fag packet.

I actually don't think Hereford are living the dream, I think they are living the reality. Its day to day, and it's as fragile as a house of cards, but its like that at most football clubs outside of the Championship. Mind you a harsh dose of reality in the form of winding up orders and CVA's might have helped. If you have a transfer embargo slapped on you, you know you've got to change the way you operate, so you stop even thinking about buying players.

[gobby cow]

I dont know why you are blaming the board steveb, the fundamental problem is with the players. AP was held responsible for the pitiful display at Hucknall, and yet again they played pitifully on Monday. AP brought in all but a few of those players so he paid the price. I am looking forward to the new manager and some new players.

I can think of a fair few that I would happily pack their bags! In fact there would be only a few left, and they are mostly Barton boys.

[Deleted]

colinlayland said:

We could always bring up the old hot chestnut debate of, if Hereford can do it,why not the City.

And we have - its a good debate, there is no reason on Earth why WCFC should not be as successful with as little resource as HUFC. Or is there?

[gobby cow]

I agree Brooksider, money isnt everything. The players need to have commitment and actually want to win. Nuneaton were brilliant on monday, they communicated, they played as a team, they had spirit and the will to win. You cant tell me they are awash with money. You just to have look at their away kit to see that!

There is a real lack of leadership on the pitch, Smudger is not a natural leader, he is trying to communicate since Carty has been back but it is not enough to shout "keep the line" to lead a team. They are really lacking that constant nagging that Des used to do, Paul Carty too. I never rated Karl as a captain because he was just too damn quiet. He didnt need to bother Paul Carty was too busy shouting at everyone for him.

[Deleted]

Nuneaton aren't awash with money, but they have a decent man in Dennis Stocker at the helm (I would say that though as I know his son Roger very well) , and an active Supporters Trust. Its not been an easy ride but the Trust managed to purchase shares in the club after a lengthy battle. I believe (though I may be wrong) that there's a clear divide between on the pitch activities and off the pitch activities.

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

Oh Dear! Brooksider brings up the subject of the Trust. What Trust? It has been inactive for so long, many people have forgotten about it. Wasn't Brooksider one of the instigators of the Trust?

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

Hey Colin, you told me on Monday that you wouldn't be going to Guisley, after the debacle which we watched.

I won't be going to Guisley. I will be visiting the Royal Monmouth Royal Engineers (Militia) Regiment. To watch them preparing to do their duty in Iraq

If anyone is interested the Malvern and District Branch of the Royal Engineers Association meets on the first Tuesday of the month at 2000 hours, in the Cradley Royal British Legion Club. All ex Sappers would be welcome.

[Deleted]

webbtony said:

Oh Dear! Brooksider brings up the subject of the Trust. What Trust? It has been inactive for so long, many people have forgotten about it. Wasn't Brooksider one of the instigators of the Trust?

And your point is?

[wh]

webbtony said:

Oh Dear! Brooksider brings up the subject of the Trust. What Trust? It has been inactive for so long, many people have forgotten about it. Wasn't Brooksider one of the instigators of the Trust?

What Trust? ... Nuneaton's Trust not WCFC!!

but still, never miss the opportunity to have a go, eh!

[Deleted]

Exactly wh, the negativity of some people knows no bounds.

[tim]

webbtony said:

Oh Dear! Brooksider brings up the subject of the Trust. What Trust? It has been inactive for so long, many people have forgotten about it. Wasn't Brooksider one of the instigators of the Trust?

Nurse!

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

The negative Brooksider is the Worcester City Trust. It has ceased to function.

[tim]

webbtony said:

The negative Brooksider is the Worcester City Trust. It has ceased to function.

Bangs head against wall. Brooksider mentioned the NUNEATON TRUST, and how well it was doing. He didn't mention the WCFC ex-Trust. Capisce?

[Deleted]

webbtony said:

The negative Brooksider is the Worcester City Trust. It has ceased to function.

It hasn't ceased to function, its never been asked to do anything by the Supporters. I guess we are lucky that supporters of WCFC are getting everything they want from the club, and that the supporters believe that the club is in safe hands.
A Supporters Trust only appears to work at clubs in turmoil, thats my theory anyway.

[Deleted]

tim said:

webbtony said:

The negative Brooksider is the Worcester City Trust. It has ceased to function.

Bangs head against wall. Brooksider mentioned the NUNEATON TRUST, and how well it was doing. He didn't mention the WCFC ex-Trust. Capisce?

Actually forget about a supporters trust. Nuneaton Borough FC somehow manages to "support" an Official Supporters Club, an Unofficial Supporters Club and a Supporters Trust. They've bought shares in the club, and have been extremely active in lobbying the club to protect the interests at Liberty Way in the form of a Charitable Trust status. Now thats a lot of supporter involvement!!!

[andy]

Nuneaton supporters had to form a Supporters Trust in order to be able to buy shares. Unlike Worcester where they are generally availble to supporters wishing to buy them.

I dont agree that the City Trust "hasn't ceased to function - its never been asked to do anything by Supporters". After all of the work in getting the constitution together, the Working Party failed to convene the process that would have led to the election of the Trust Board Members. I believe that it was agreed that action would be taken back in March 2004, and I believe that it was agreed who it would be done by, and I believe it was agreed the week before I went to Sudan for 11 weeks on work. I may be wrong in my recollection on all three points.

Anyway, it never happened, and so the Trust lapsed into a situation of limbo with regard to its legitimacy to do anything. It needs to be dissolved, and I believe Nick is taking the necessary steps to do so. On that particular point, I would agree 'forget about a supporters trust'. A good idea in principle became a bad idea in practice.

[Deleted]

March 2004? I think you believe wrongly there andy. What I do know is that it killed one marriage and went a way towards killing another. High points? the "Boys of 79" in August 04 including a great powerpoint by Andy Fordham and the Fabulous Williams Boys! ( I spent 3 whole days late into the evening trying to choreograph an introductory Powerpoint slideshow with Misty Blue and Time is Tight - it worked out okay - still got it on my laptop) And the May 04 Gig by Sideways Glance and Snorkel (with no licence for live music in the Social club ) Not forgetting the LeukaemiaCARE charity football match and the tombola (Where did you get those prizes from Andy? and remember that awful china figurine thing?) and of course the marshalling of the Fun Run. Low points? The City Initiative for local football clubs.
March 2004 andy? Was it you or did you send your looky likey The Viking to the launch evening on the 26th March?

[andy]

Must have been 2005, then. Must be getting confused between when I went to Sudan and Somalia. Anyway the point remains valid despite me getting the year wrong.

I think all the events you mention to get the profile of the Trust raised and the launch process were excellent. You had major inputs, Jem, and much credit to you for that. To answer your question, I paid for the tombola prizes (not the china figurine, which was donated) and never claimed them back).

Despite all the great efforts from people manning the tombola, it took about 10 hours of voluntary effort to raise about 30 quid. Its just as easy to give the money straight to the Club, which I tend to do at the auction now. And the benefits are great.

Problem is, for whatever reason, the necessary step to convert from the Working Party to the Trust Board as required by the constitution did not progress. Hence, no-one else could carry it forward even if they wanted to.

I believe you can encompass a third marriage in that equation as well.

[Deleted]

andy I know you paid for them, just wondered what shops even stocked them!!!! I think we all ended up quite out of pocket during those times.

[andy]

Which items do you mean?