FA Trophy 3 Qual Draw

[DazaB]

Tie 4: Guiseley AFC v Worcester City




1 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Gateshead v Boston United
2 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Solihull Moors v Cambridge City
3 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Fleetwood Town /
Retford United v Chasetown /
Radcliffe Borough
4 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Guiseley AFC v Worcester City
5 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Corby Town /
Evesham United v Redditch United
6 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Rushall Olympic /
Clitheroe v Ossett Town
7 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bamber Bridge /
Marine v Ilkeston Town
8 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Hinckley United v Alfreton Town
9 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Colwyn Bay v Sheffield
10 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Vauxhall Motors v Hyde United
11 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Blyth Spartans AFC v Gainsborough Trinity
12 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Barrow v Southport
13 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Burscough v Leigh RMI
14 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Hucknall Town v Witton Albion
15 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Nuneaton Borough v Workington
16 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Buxton v AFC Telford United
17 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Stalybridge Celtic v Tamworth
18 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Harrogate Town v Kettering Town
19 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bromley v Chippenham Town
20 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bishop's Stortford v Hampton & Richmond Borough
21 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Hemel Hempstead Town v Team Bath
22 24 Nov 2007 15:00 AFC Wimbledon v AFC Hornchurch /
Northwood
23 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Abingdon United /
Maidstone United v Canvey Island
24 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Basingstoke Town v Lewes
25 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Gosport Borough v Braintree Town
26 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Dorchester Town v Worthing /
Walton & Hersham
27 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Fisher Athletic v Leamington /
Margate
28 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bognor Regis Town v Havant & Waterlooville
29 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bashley v Leatherhead /
Mangotsfield United
30 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Gloucester City /
Hillingdon Borough v Uxbridge
31 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Hayes & Yeading United v Witham Town
32 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Carshalton Athletic v Hitchin Town
33 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Eastleigh v Weston Super Mare
34 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Windsor & Eton v Newport County
35 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Bath City v Thurrock
36 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Tonbridge Angels v Burnham
37 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Wealdstone v Welling United
38 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Kings Lynn /
Billericay Town v Eastbourne Borough
39 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Maidenhead United v St Albans City
40 24 Nov 2007 15:00 Dover Athletic v Sutton United

[DazaB]

Tough tie, they are 3rd in the Unibond - won't be a pushover.


Kieran will be happy though.

[LeedsWCFC]

admin said:

Kieran will be happy though.

I am. ;D ;D ;D

[tim]

Bollo.cks. I'm stuck in Kent that weekend, was my only hope of seeing some proper football this side of Christmas I fear!

[villager]

I see Evesham v Redditch is a possibility.

[dave]

Harrogate Town v Kettering could be the tie of the round!

[tim]

Bromley/Chippenham for me then, or maybe Fisher/Leamington if they get through against Margate.

[B*ue dragonstander]

Geesely looks qute a decent sort of a place. A Harry R's and a couple of cracking hostelries it might make it worth the trek. No easy tie. We will be happy to get them to teh Lane for a reep i reckon.

As for drawing a team from north of Leeds at this stage of the competition what ever is going on ? I dont know how far it is (160+ miles?) but surely the draw is regionalised until we get the R1 proper? Are we being penalised for being nominally in the "North" due to our league status? How are clubs supposed to make money with this sort of organisation?

[andy]

I think the FA Cup Committee is open to contention on a number of systemic issues.

[Tim Munslow]

Lady luck seems to have handed out a few local derbies (us excepted of course), with Evesham v Redditch a real possibility.

I don't like the look of our draw; a banana skin and a half I reckon. They are having a decent season by the look of it. Still, as with all cup competitions, these are the sort of matches you have to get through to win it. And, last season, we didn't fancy Blyth did we? So, here we go.

It certainly looks as if the draw has been regionalised North/South, with the dividing point at Match 18.

[alwaysnextyear]

Grotty draw, but looking on the bright side most of our players won't have to travel too far ! As for Andy and his jet car it's just under half an hour from Ledbury !

[andy]

Tim

Can you suggest why Cambridge City have been put into the northern half. In my view, it defies logic.

[dorothy]

North of Soho square??

[tim]

andy said:

Tim

Can you suggest why Cambridge City have been put into the northern half. In my view, it defies logic.

It's the old "where do you draw the line" scenario again. It would appear as though there was an odd number of undisputably northern teams in the hat, so they had to relocate the boundary again. Just because the Conference North/South divide exists doesn't mean it has to be the same for the FA Cup or FA Trophy. Separate organising bodies, separate competition rules.

[andy]

I agree, TJ, and thats why putting Cambridge in the North (again) repeats what they do every time. And that is to increase the probability of southern Step 2 clubs benefitting more from prize money than northern step 2 Clubs.

With 23 Step 2 sides among 36 Clubs in the northern 'half' of the draw, the chances of two Step 2 sides being drawn against each other are significantly higher than 21 Step 2 sides being drawn against each other among 44 Clubs in the southern half of the draw.

The draw wouldnt work out this way in reality, but in the extreme case, it could end up with none of the 21 southern Step 2 Clubs being drawn against each other, and all having a chance to win 3K. In the northern half, 10 have to play each other, and so five are denied the chance to win 3K. I dont know what the probabilities are 'cos my maths isnt good enough, but I reckon its a difference of about 3 between north and south. So, about 10K.

On average, every season (in both the FAT and the FAC), this means that southern Step 2 Clubs (as a whole) have the chance to win about 20K more than northern Step 2 Clubs.

I would have preferred to see Cambridge kept in the south, and one of Kettering or Worcester go into the southern-half. The justification is the same (an odd number, like you say), but it would even up the balance a little (ie 21 among 36 and 23 among 44).

[Tim Munslow]

Alternatively, abolish the zoning and have a truly national draw; that's what they've done with the 1st Round of the FA Cup and no-one's complaining.

[DazaB]

Except the Bournmouth manager!!!

[Deleted]

I was going to say the same thing myself Tim. Once clubs at our level come into the draw you are talking about clubs who have a genuine opportunity to get to the final, so they should all be given as level a playing field as possible. Get rid of the regionalisation.

[andy]

I think a geographic position in the heart of the country may influence views on regionalisation. I'm sure there would be powerful arguments against Margate v Workington and Tiverton v Blyth Spartans fixtures.

I'm not against regionalisation at this stage of the tournament, it currently extends beyond the stage when full Conference Clubs enter.

However, with cup prize money being the prime mechanism of redistribution of the FA wealth to the grassroots levels, those regions have to follow a principle of equity of opportunity to access those funds - a principle that they appear to have so far blatantly (and repeatedly) disregarded. I feel the FA Committee could indeed be vulnerable if any claims were to be brought against them, especially, say, a concerted action by CN clubs.

[Deleted]

Why would there be powerful arguments against those fixtures? As it stands at the moment, a Kettering v St Blazeys tie is theoretically possible. Either of those ties could happen in the next round anyway, and clubs at our level must consider themselves as possible finalists, so need the level playing field. As an aside, if we were to play in the Southern region of the Trophy, wouldn't that weaken any arguments we have against playing inthe Conf South? or strengthen the Conference arguments that we play in Conf South?
We live on a tiny island and worry about regionalisation!

[DazaB]

I agree.

Clubs that are out of the way like to make themselves seem like martyrs about having to travel so let them travel!!!

Even out the playing field, if two teams at the same level are drawn against each other it really is the luck of the draw!

Being in the Midlands we have the disadvantage of being a potential 'yo-yo' club. Blyth and the like don't have that concern. I'm sure they can trek to St Blazey once in a while!

[tim]

"Veiled reference of (anti-Worcester) bias permeates the ambience"

Kicker Conspiracy!!!!

[andy]

I think you have to decide which battle you are trying to win.

After being drawn against Nuneaton and Cambridge City in the 2nd QR of the FA Cup, and the case was made to the FA Cup Committee by the Club, no-one seemed to mind when we got drawn at home to Bemerton Heath Harlequins the following year.

I am not approaching this from a regionalisation issue, nor as a travel distance issue, nor (as has often been said) from a perspective that favours Worcester City any more than other CN Club. To think that this is a reaction to some anti-Worcester line is barking up the wrong tree. I believe I've explained it clearly enough.

Darrell is wrong when he says that if two CN teams are drawn against each other it is the luck of the draw. The central point is that it isnt wholly to do with luck. Of course, I accept the part that is to do with luck. The justification, as I said, is the CS benefitting from having the opportunity to access ~20K a year in prize money more than CN Clubs.

[Deleted]

Skock horror, I am in total agreement with andy !!!!! It might be about the luck of the draw, but the Northern teams have to be more luckier than the southern, which is wrong.

[niels]

jcp said:

Skock horror, I am in total agreement with andy !!!!! It might be about the luck of the draw, but the Northern teams have to be more luckier than the southern, which is wrong.

Are you 12?

[DrAgony]

jcp said:

Skock horror, I am in total agreement with andy !!!!! It might be about the luck of the draw, but the Northern teams have to be more luckier than the southern, which is wrong.

You must not agree with andy! If matter & anti-matter meet - annihilation of both.

And Andy, did you not show very convincingly that we have a good statistical chance of being in CS next season - so maybe now is not the best time to get the shy & retiring Mr Brooksider wound up on this issue... just a thought.

[andy]

I thought it was shown statistically - with Darrell's assistance - that the likelihood of us being in CS next year is low. (For all that statistics are worth). It depends really on what Kettering do compared with others in our league.

I love your warning of matter and anti-matter meeting. Hilarious!

[DazaB]

andy said:

Darrell is wrong when he says that if two CN teams are drawn against each other it is the luck of the draw. The central point is that it isnt wholly to do with luck. Of course, I accept the part that is to do with luck. The justification, as I said, is the CS benefitting from having the opportunity to access ~20K a year in prize money more than CN Clubs.

I think I ommited the word 'then'

Even out the playing field, if two teams at the same level are drawn against each other then it really is the luck of the draw!

By that I meant that if we even out the field i.e. have no regionalisation, then it would be down to how the balls come out, not, as it is at the moment, down to having more teams from a higher level in the northern section!


In the Northern section there was a 62.9% chance of us facing another step 2 side, for any step two side in the southern section the odds are reduced to 46.5%!

If, say, Cambridge stayed south along with ourselves or Kettering, the odds of a step 2 team facing a fellow step 2 side are 60.6% in the North and 48.8% in the South!!!!!

[andy]

Darrell

Thanks for that. Can you employ your mathematical superbrain to express it a different way for me. With Cambridge in the North, as they were, how many more Step 2 v Step 2 fixtures are likely to be drawn in the northern region (23 among 36) compared with the southern region (21 among 44)? For a 'typical' draw, if you know what I mean (ie in some years you could get 20 southern sides playing each other, and just 10 northern, but that would be very untypical). Ta.

[Deleted]

niels said:

jcp said:

Skock horror, I am in total agreement with andy !!!!! It might be about the luck of the draw, but the Northern teams have to be more luckier than the southern, which is wrong.

Are you 12?

No it just sounds better, thats all