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AGM
Jan 28, 2016 23:57:44 GMT
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Post by blueandwhitearmy on Jan 28, 2016 23:57:44 GMT
Say that Perdiswell is a 'No-go' whats the next plan if action? Where could we consider going next? I'm also interested in what the possibility of raising funds would be for? Would the funds be to help the club stay relatively stable or for wages?
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 0:36:50 GMT
Post by thesecondjack on Jan 29, 2016 0:36:50 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own.
What I'm taking from Jem is that Perdiswell isn't going to happen, yet a quote from this evening in the paper reads as
So are you saying simply that there is not future for the club now? Or is it something that has been lost in translation?
I'd like Perdiswell to go ahead, we all would, but if what has been said is true, then perhaps alternatives should be looked at. I'm certainly keen and willing to help the cause in any way I can, and although I've not got any particular skill set that I think can be of much use, I do have a few spare hours each week that I can dedicate. If the powers that be would like my contact information, or to talk more, feel free to PM me on here for it.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 0:46:39 GMT
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Post by blueandwhitearmy on Jan 29, 2016 0:46:39 GMT
I'm certainly keen and willing to help the cause in any way I can, and although I've not got any particular skill set that I think can be of much use, I do have a few spare hours each week that I can dedicate. If the powers that be would like my contact information, or to talk more, feel free to PM me on here for it. [/quote]
I'm also available whenever, By the way my real name is Dec Roberts.
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stamoo
First Teamer
Posts: 349
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 7:34:03 GMT
Post by stamoo on Jan 29, 2016 7:34:03 GMT
I am massively confused here. Surely it's the Planning Committee who decide if planning permission is granted and they have to object on PLANNING founds not whether or not the Council want us at Perdiswell? We still have the right to have our application heard??
Presumably the sticking point will be the land at Perdiswell as it belongs to the Council??
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dcx
Squad Member
Posts: 289
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 8:02:27 GMT
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Post by dcx on Jan 29, 2016 8:02:27 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own. What I'm taking from Jem is that Perdiswell isn't going to happen, yet a quote from this evening in the paper reads as So are you saying simply that there is not future for the club now? Or is it something that has been lost in translation? I'd like Perdiswell to go ahead, we all would, but if what has been said is true, then perhaps alternatives should be looked at. I'm certainly keen and willing to help the cause in any way I can, and although I've not got any particular skill set that I think can be of much use, I do have a few spare hours each week that I can dedicate. If the powers that be would like my contact information, or to talk more, feel free to PM me on here for it. We were undoubtedly running a loss similar if not bigger than that for many years at the Lane, the difference is we (and by that I mean the incompetent board) got away with it as our overdraft would have been secured against the ground. We now have no assets to offer up as security so running very far into an overdraft facility, as a loss making enterprise, is a serious issue. At the end of the day you need profit to generate cash, and cash to pay off your loans/creditors. No one with any sense (perhaps I am giving the bank too much credit there...) is going to loan an enterprise any money if they have no hope of repaying it.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 9:11:39 GMT
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Post by jupu on Jan 29, 2016 9:11:39 GMT
I am massively confused here. Surely it's the Planning Committee who decide if planning permission is granted and they have to object on PLANNING founds not whether or not the Council want us at Perdiswell? We still have the right to have our application heard?? Presumably the sticking point will be the land at Perdiswell as it belongs to the Council?? Stamoo you have correctly answered your own questions. The Planning Committee will take a decision on the planning application only. That will be based on material planning considerations. The Council would have to take a completely separate decision on whether to allow the Club to use the land.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 9:56:12 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 9:56:12 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own. What I'm taking from Jem is that Perdiswell isn't going to happen, yet a quote from this evening in the paper reads as So are you saying simply that there is not future for the club now? Or is it something that has been lost in translation? I'd like Perdiswell to go ahead, we all would, but if what has been said is true, then perhaps alternatives should be looked at. I'm certainly keen and willing to help the cause in any way I can, and although I've not got any particular skill set that I think can be of much use, I do have a few spare hours each week that I can dedicate. If the powers that be would like my contact information, or to talk more, feel free to PM me on here for it. There is nothing lost in translation - as Rob Crean put it last night "We might be accused of putting all our eggs in one basket, but we only ever had one basket!" If Perdiswell stops now, then what can we do? Look at alternatives? Yes of course, however this really does mean starting from scratch, in fact it means stating from a worse position from scratch, its actually starting from scratch with far less money to finance a bid! and Perdiswell has taken over 3 years to get to a stage where it can be presented to planning. The cost in time and money is substantial, and of course, as a club we are fast running out of cash, we need an FA Cup run every year to keep the losses almost acceptable, and thats just not going to happen! Remember also that when it comes to land, the plan is for a community solution with multiple pitches for multiple teams, with a business model that operates 360 days a year instead of the present model that operates 50 days a year! so the land requirement is more complex, and there's a need for more land. And on top of that, the landowner needs to have a will to sell it, possibly in 3/4 years time, and not change their mind! In Business speak, the situation is "challenging" In the real world, the situation is bloody frightening!
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 10:00:32 GMT
Post by suv on Jan 29, 2016 10:00:32 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own. The last year at SGL (May 2013) had a loss of £ 40,000+ this estimate for this season (May 2016) is in excess of £120,000.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 10:37:43 GMT
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Post by The Verner on Jan 29, 2016 10:37:43 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own. The last year at SGL (May 2013) had a loss of £ 40,000+ this estimate for this season (May 2016) is in excess of £120,000. Correct. I must also point out that Hampo was wrong when saying "If Kidderminster get relegated the stewarding costs would significantly reduce" The Safety Certificate at Aggborough will state on their Schedule of Stewards the areas and numbers needed for cover. The only way to reduce stewarding bill is to close stands etc, like we do now. In reality the costs at Aggborough could increase ! They have just purchased the public car park and that will no doubt lut extra bodies down for this to be covered. Then you have the minimum wage increase. If we stay at Aggborough then that section will only get worse !
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 11:09:00 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 11:09:00 GMT
Having thought about it, isn't a £60k loss about what we were running at for a fair few year before The Lane was sold? in a round about way means we're in the same situation, only now we have no place to call our own. The last year at SGL (May 2013) had a loss of £ 40,000+ this estimate for this season (May 2016) is in excess of £120,000. And consider what that would be without the FA Cup run? And this not with the Board being in any way profligate with money, this is the reality of the trading situation. It is extremely tough trading as a business for 50 days a year, employing staff for 200 days a year, and all outside your own locality. Think about sponsorship? I was misquoted in the WN saying WCFC have nothing to offer, actually I said that the Value Proposition that we could put to sponsors was weak, there wasn't a great deal we can offer up. If I ran a local Worcester business, and my customer base was Worcester, what value is there in sponsoring a team from Kidderminster? The hit on lost sponsorship is pretty hefty. Many businesses are run with "managed losses" where the expectation is loss in some years. WCFC spent too many years accepting losses on the basis that "it'll all be ok when we get to Nunnery Way" I think everyone can see now that we took our eyes off the ball! But that's the past, I'm now working for a future, although as Hampo said quite rightly last night, we can't say what that future will be as yet!
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bj
Squad Member
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 11:09:06 GMT
Post by bj on Jan 29, 2016 11:09:06 GMT
I would hope that first thing this morning Your Worcester News has tried to get a statement from the Council CEO to see why she has not responded with alternative land options as promised.
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Jan 29, 2016 11:24:03 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 11:24:03 GMT
I would hope that first thing this morning Your Worcester News has tried to get a statement from the Council CEO to see why she has not responded with alternative land options as promised. I would hope that Geoff Berkeley has that as the first call on his agenda! The response will be interesting, there were six of us in the room, two from the club, John Jordan and Anthony Hampson, two from the ST, me and Rob Crean, Lord Faulkner and CEO Sheena Ramsay. We all know how the discussion went, we all know what the actions were, we all know what the timescales were. I think that we were more than generous with the timescale, and made it very clear what our action would be if nothing happened - and nothing happened. After that meeting, the level of dejection from all of us was palpable. It was the moment when we all realised that we had to totally unify as we were all let down in the same way.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 11:50:30 GMT
Post by greenman on Jan 29, 2016 11:50:30 GMT
I have offered my help to Mike Davies in setting up a sub-committee to find ways of raising the additional £60k per season, for those of you who are also interested in helping the Club survive I would urge you to contact Mike and offer to join this initiative.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 11:58:11 GMT
Post by cloud on Jan 29, 2016 11:58:11 GMT
I may be confused, but wasn't the old Park & Ride site a plan B?
Seem to remember seeing it mentioned in the uploaded documents that went alongside the planning proposal / comments on the council hub, last year.
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Jan 29, 2016 12:08:46 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 12:08:46 GMT
Park and Ride site was considered in the sequential testing of suitable sites in Worcester, but the site is too small. Sequential testing has to be done, and is included in the application bundle to show that due diligence has been carried out on alternative sites.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 12:52:01 GMT
Post by kentenigmawcfc on Jan 29, 2016 12:52:01 GMT
Hi Jem, Just catching up with all the comments on here after last night. Firstly thank you for speaking so clearly and openly as to the true state of play with Perdiswell and the Council which though disappointing and indeed worrying is better to have out in the open so we can all be in no doubts as to truth of our dire situation. Until such times as I actually make the move up to Worcester my ability to help directly at the moment is limited. I will make a start though by getting in touch with a relatively local team to me down here who I believe had help from their local council when they were searching for land to build their new ground. Interestingly their local council is a Conservative run administration but may have been Labour at the time they were helped with their stadium. So I will make some preliminary enquiries with the Club to see if I have got the above right first and if I have, perhaps see if they can give me some insight as to how they achieved and agreed this with their local council and if it could help our Clubs aims at all.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:16:58 GMT
Post by suv on Jan 29, 2016 13:16:58 GMT
The last year at SGL (May 2013) had a loss of £ 40,000+ this estimate for this season (May 2016) is in excess of £120,000. And consider what that would be without the FA Cup run? ; The previous year (May 2015) included Coventry & Scunthorpe with TV, and also transfer fees, Well in excess of £150.000 to the club funds and this generated a £2,000 year end profit. Would I be correct in thinking that without the FA Cup success' this could have been the last season for WCFC ?
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:35:43 GMT
Post by kentenigmawcfc on Jan 29, 2016 13:35:43 GMT
As for Perdiswell, I think we may have missed a trick with our plans that might have swung things more in our favour with the locals. I did suggest something along these lines to Dave, Rob and a couple of others a couple of years ago having visited Sutton United. Sutton have a facility built onto their stadium which some friends took me to one evening for which they use, apart from the usual wedding reception and party facility, they also use this for what they call the 'Boom Boom' club where they have weekly bands (mainly tribute bands) playing on Friday evenings and sometimes other nights of the week. Now I am not suggesting we should do that and that alone and I appreciate their are licensing issues but it could be one of a plethora of ways we could use such a facility. I have seen other Clubs use their facilities for other uses such as Chalfont St. Peters who use theirs as a nursery, another whose name escapes me were hiring out part of theirs as an office space for a small start up company, while others make theirs available as just a general meeting hall. I believe if we had submitted a 'Phase 2' type facility built in the same style next to the Club house we could provide a facility where groups such as a lonely elderly peoples club for those living on their own when say their partners pass on have somewhere to go and meet similar people and socialise. A mothers and toddlers group, if there was a small stage somewhere where local amateur dramatic and musicians could hire to practice and maybe even stage a production or performance. What about making the room or part their of available for say a job club for those seeking work. There are endless other clubs that might appreciate having a venue such as for budding artists, photographers etc. Yes we would need a bar and kitchen facilities for the parties, wedding receptions and the evenings when a theatrical play or a band was performing but maybe that bar could be open during the day alongside the cafe facility to act as a local social club with a nominal annual membership. I think such a facility would create a lot of good will in the local community and generate a steady income stream for the club. Even if ultimately Perdiswell does turn out to be history and we have to think again I think the above should be factored into any future plans even if it cannot be built from the outset. We need the local community on side and we need a reliable income stream beyond that the Club can generate. We no longer have the luxury of just being a Football Club we have to be so much more if we are to have a future.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:45:45 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 13:45:45 GMT
Hi Jem, Just catching up with all the comments on here after last night. Firstly thank you for speaking so clearly and openly as to the true state of play with Perdiswell and the Council which though disappointing and indeed worrying is better to have out in the open so we can all be in no doubts as to truth of our dire situation. Until such times as I actually make the move up to Worcester my ability to help directly at the moment is limited. I will make a start though by getting in touch with a relatively local team to me down here who I believe had help from their local council when they were searching for land to build their new ground. Interestingly their local council is a Conservative run administration but may have been Labour at the time they were helped with their stadium. So I will make some preliminary enquiries with the Club to see if I have got the above right first and if I have, perhaps see if they can give me some insight as to how they achieved and agreed this with their local council and if it could help our Clubs aims at all. Simon Really appreciate your support, and thank you for your offer of help. I and the Board of Directors can't do this on our own, this is too big! Any information about where a local authority has worked in support of a football club would be of great value. Local Authority support does not necessarily mean money, but just the appetite and the understanding that there is a great ROI in supporting a local football club. I'm getting information on other local authorities, and other clubs, so every little really helps. Jem
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:46:55 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 13:46:55 GMT
And consider what that would be without the FA Cup run? ; The previous year (May 2015) included Coventry & Scunthorpe with TV, and also transfer fees, Well in excess of £150.000 to the club funds and this generated a £2,000 year end profit. Would I be correct in thinking that without the FA Cup success' this could have been the last season for WCFC ? SUV, all I can say is, draw your own conclusions As they say, "do the math" !!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:49:36 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 13:49:36 GMT
Has the council leader actually said why she doesn't support the Perdiswell plan? Or won't she place this on record? If she did it might give us something to respond to.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 13:55:24 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 13:55:24 GMT
As for Perdiswell, I think we may have missed a trick with our plans that might have swung things more in our favour with the locals. I did suggest something along these lines to Dave, Rob and a couple of others a couple of years ago having visited Sutton United. Sutton have a facility built onto their stadium which some friends took me to one evening for which they use, apart from the usual wedding reception and party facility, they also use this for what they call the 'Boom Boom' club where they have weekly bands (mainly tribute bands) playing on Friday evenings and sometimes other nights of the week. Now I am not suggesting we should do that and that alone and I appreciate their are licensing issues but it could be one of a plethora of ways we could use such a facility. I have seen other Clubs use their facilities for other uses such as Chalfont St. Peters who use theirs as a nursery, another whose name escapes me were hiring out part of theirs as an office space for a small start up company, while others make theirs available as just a general meeting hall. I believe if we had submitted a 'Phase 2' type facility built in the same style next to the Club house we could provide a facility where groups such as a lonely elderly peoples club for those living on their own when say their partners pass on have somewhere to go and meet similar people and socialise. A mothers and toddlers group, if there was a small stage somewhere where local amateur dramatic and musicians could hire to practice and maybe even stage a production or performance. What about making the room or part their of available for say a job club for those seeking work. There are endless other clubs that might appreciate having a venue such as for budding artists, photographers etc. Yes we would need a bar and kitchen facilities for the parties, wedding receptions and the evenings when a theatrical play or a band was performing but maybe that bar could be open during the day alongside the cafe facility to act as a local social club with a nominal annual membership. I think such a facility would create a lot of good will in the local community and generate a steady income stream for the club. Even if ultimately Perdiswell does turn out to be history and we have to think again I think the above should be factored into any future plans even if it cannot be built from the outset. We need the local community on side and we need a reliable income stream beyond that the Club can generate. We no longer have the luxury of just being a Football Club we have to be so much more if we are to have a future. Simon All of what you have suggested is already included in the plan. The non-football elements form part of the overall community aspects of the development. The plan has always been for a Social Community Development, which just happens to be incorporated in the confines of a football ground. We have support from local businesses who would like to use the facilities for training rooms, demo rooms, etc. We have local groups just as you've laid out who would like to use the facilities when available. Football , and Worcester City FC, are just one part of the overall plan. This is how its worked at other community clubs such as Telford and Dartford, the facility becomes a hub for social interest groups, sporting or non-sporting. WCFC generates revenue on maybe 50 days in a calendar year, the facilities at Perdiswell will be geared up to provide revenue for as close to 365 days as possible. That revenue would not only go into WCFC, but also into management and maintenance of the overall Perdiswell development. We can integrate the existing facilities, and give more utilisation for the City Council on the site.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 14:00:39 GMT
Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Jan 29, 2016 14:00:39 GMT
Has the council leader actually said why she doesn't support the Perdiswell plan? Or won't she place this on record? If she did it might give us something to respond to. Wouldn't it just? No response at all. We met on 12th November, and asked for a response by 31st December, this was agreed by all parties at the meeting. It is now 29th January, and there has been no response whatsoever.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 14:15:53 GMT
Post by kentenigmawcfc on Jan 29, 2016 14:15:53 GMT
Hi Jem, I have sent off an enquiry to Dartford who I believe did have council help and interestingly is currently Conservative run though whether they were at the time I don't know but have asked them about that too and indeed whether they had cross party support. Let me wait for a reply in case my recollections about them were wrong. If I am right though is there anything specific I can ask them that would be of help?
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Deleted
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Jan 29, 2016 14:23:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 14:23:56 GMT
"there has been no response whatsoever" Disgusting behaviour from someone who claims to serve the public interest.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 14:43:14 GMT
Post by kentenigmawcfc on Jan 29, 2016 14:43:14 GMT
Hi Jem, Thanks for confirming those ideas for the community facilities have been factored in as they didn't seem to be present in any plans I was shown two or three years ago that I can recall but good to know they are there. Do you know if they were emphasised to the locals and 'Nimby' brigade, as I don't recall them being shown to them or if they were there brought to the fore at the presentation to the locals at the Perdiswell Sports Centre a couple of years back?
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 14:59:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by sleepinggiant on Jan 29, 2016 14:59:06 GMT
Sheena Ramsey's e-mail address is readily available on line. Is there any merit in supporters contacting her to politely ask why this information is not being provided?
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Post by creaner on Jan 29, 2016 15:35:05 GMT
Sheena Ramsey's e-mail address is readily available on line. Is there any merit in supporters contacting her to politely ask why this information is not being provided? I've just spoken with Trevor Owens from H&W. They are covering this on the sports slot tomorrow and hopefully on the breakfast show next week. Trevor is approaching WCC for a response.
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 15:42:59 GMT
Post by thatloudbloke on Jan 29, 2016 15:42:59 GMT
hi Jem thanks for all the information you have given to all the questions, some of what i see is as a lot of others not what we really wanted, but we asked for open & honest from the club & you have delivered.
i will speak to Mike tomorrow to see what/where i can be of any assistance as my family have a long history with the club, my son & I defiantly want the club to stay,especially more so in Worcester.
i have sent Robin Walker an email asking for his intervention with the Tory Councillors to sort them as he & his father are Worcester people.
maybe if a few more did the same it might help...
I will be in Aggbrough Suite tomorrow where supporters trust are as per banner topic....
once again many thanks Jem...
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AGM
Jan 29, 2016 16:40:16 GMT
Post by thesecondjack on Jan 29, 2016 16:40:16 GMT
Although Robin Walker has no control over what councillors do - he is arguably the highest ranking Tory in the city, so might be able to force their hand through the party. He has an ad in the matchday programme each game, which isn't much, but surely means he will claim to support the club, and want it back in the city... right?
Like has been said, thanks to all for the continued hard work that has been done, honesty is appreciated, certainly.
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