Appropriate at the new Wembley that ...

[jp]

I think that is very untrue VOR, a small handful of PL players could be considered pricks , but its like that in any other profession, and the gulf in finance between the punter and the player increases that consideration. I personally don't consider people like Gabby Agbonlahor, Luke Moore or John Carew to be pricks, or Morten Gamst Pedersen, or Graeme Murty or Nicky Shorey, Andre Bikey, Greg Halford, or Lee Peltier, or Nabil El Zhar, or the other 90% of PL players who don't make the headlines. You judge them by how they are perceived by the Press. The vast majority of PL players are also real people, in fact they all are, they have no special breeding, they have Mums, Dads (some don't like in real life) Brothers, Sisters, marital problems, behavioural problems, personal tragedies, just like everyone else. The only difference is that they are paid excessive amounts of money for doing their job and paraded in the public eye. And once that starts happening there are plenty of tabloids ready to paint you as the biggest prick with too much money in the World. A prime example outside of football is Laurence Dallaglio, before rugby professionalism he was just an ordinary bloke doing a job, after the tabloids targetted him he was a smackhead who also dealt. Truth was he was set up and is just an ordinary bloke with his fair share of personal tragedy.
I would ask this question to anybody - if you were in your early 20's and being paid massive amounts of money, would you not buy a sports car or two? and a couple of big houses? Is that so self-indulgent?
Just a thought, but Robbie Fowler? Self Indulgent prik? or shrewd businessman who has his head screwed on and has maximised his playing income to build a huge property portfolio to become the wealthiest footballer inthe Premier League?

[voiceofreason]

jp said:

I think that is very untrue VOR, a small handful of PL players could be considered pricks , but its like that in any other profession, and the gulf in finance between the punter and the player increases that consideration. I personally don't consider people like Gabby Agbonlahor, Luke Moore or John Carew to be pricks, or Morten Gamst Pedersen, or Graeme Murty or Nicky Shorey, Andre Bikey, Greg Halford, or Lee Peltier, or Nabil El Zhar, or the other 90% of PL players who don't make the headlines. You judge them by how they are perceived by the Press. The vast majority of PL players are also real people, in fact they all are, they have no special breeding, they have Mums, Dads (some don't like in real life) Brothers, Sisters, marital problems, behavioural problems, personal tragedies, just like everyone else. The only difference is that they are paid excessive amounts of money for doing their job and paraded in the public eye. And once that starts happening there are plenty of tabloids ready to paint you as the biggest prick with too much money in the World. A prime example outside of football is Laurence Dallaglio, before rugby professionalism he was just an ordinary bloke doing a job, after the tabloids targetted him he was a smackhead who also dealt. Truth was he was set up and is just an ordinary bloke with his fair share of personal tragedy.
I would ask this question to anybody - if you were in your early 20's and being paid massive amounts of money, would you not buy a sports car or two? and a couple of big houses? Is that so self-indulgent?
Just a thought, but Robbie Fowler? Self Indulgent prik? or shrewd businessman who has his head screwed on and has maximised his playing income to build a huge property portfolio to become the wealthiest footballer inthe Premier League?

Take your point;you clearly didn't read mine re.the Nurses campaign!
If they gave money to that all well & good, but most top-flight players(who didn't!), whilst human, are self-indulgent & pr*cks to boot.
It's part of their culture & I guess human nature.......though you don't see the same in most other sports, but you do in lots of other walks of life......

[jp]

Of course I read your post, and understand your point about the nurses campaign, to be honest though, if they gave a days wages towards that, then its diddly sqwat and in some ways becomes something of a self serving act. After all, its there are plenty of players who give massive amounts of money to hardly known charities that don't ever hit the papers. I'm not belittling the nurses campaign at all, but don't judge footballers by one campaign which hit the headlines and certain players arent mentioned. in my opinion the idea of giving up a days pay to help nurses (in what way? are they getting the money personally? is it being pooled and distributed? Is it going into a Union fighting fund?) hardly help the cause, a bit like giving a few dollars to a few beggars on the streets of Calcutta . I personally do not consider Andy Preece or Des Lyttle to be self-indulgent pricks, even though they have been top flight footballers. I don't consider that andy Morrison is in any way a self indulgent prick either.
Do you get it inother sports? well Premier League football is so far above any other sport in this country in terms of wealth then no you don't, apart from the individual sports like boxing where self-indulgence is possibly an ingredient for success. Over in the States the big money sports such as Baseball, hockey and football suffer the same kind of self-indulgence (How many black Hummers with 20 inch chrome wheels with spinners does a man need for heavens sake??)
Its no coincidence either that these are all sports which get the most inches nay feet of press every day.
Anyway this wasn't the argument, andy considered them numpties because they were unable to entertain him, or to take in the sense of occasion that the new Wembley was all about, and lacked character or spirit.

[voiceofreason]

jp said:

Of course I read your post, and understand your point about the nurses campaign, to be honest though, if they gave a days wages towards that, then its diddly sqwat and in some ways becomes something of a self serving act. After all, its there are plenty of players who give massive amounts of money to hardly known charities that don't ever hit the papers. I'm not belittling the nurses campaign at all, but don't judge footballers by one campaign which hit the headlines and certain players arent mentioned. in my opinion the idea of giving up a days pay to help nurses (in what way? are they getting the money personally? is it being pooled and distributed? Is it going into a Union fighting fund?) hardly help the cause, a bit like giving a few dollars to a few beggars on the streets of Calcutta . I personally do not consider Andy Preece or Des Lyttle to be self-indulgent pricks, even though they have been top flight footballers. I don't consider that andy Morrison is in any way a self indulgent prick either.
Do you get it inother sports? well Premier League football is so far above any other sport in this country in terms of wealth then no you don't, apart from the individual sports like boxing where self-indulgence is possibly an ingredient for success. Over in the States the big money sports such as Baseball, hockey and football suffer the same kind of self-indulgence (How many black Hummers with 20 inch chrome wheels with spinners does a man need for heavens sake??)
Its no coincidence either that these are all sports which get the most inches nay feet of press every day.
Anyway this wasn't the argument, andy considered them numpties because they were unable to entertain him, or to take in the sense of occasion that the new Wembley was all about, and lacked character or spirit.

You mean you disagree......

[jp]

I disagree with a blanket comment saying that the 22 players on the pitch were numpties, when the original comment was admonishing the crowd for booing great players due to their links with rival clubs, which in itself is a numpty thing to do. Also andy's comment that these 22 do not show passion playing for their country, when that is also clearly untrue.

[andy]

As most people agree, it was the most tepid FA Cup Final in recent memory. Still dont like either of the Clubs, despite the arguments made on their behalf that their players put their lives on the line, and that their wives and girlfriends deserve every Gucci handbag the fans and FA prize money intended for distribution to grass roots football can pay for. Jealous of them? Not an iota bit. But looking forward to them delivering on the world stage. Its been a while. If they are unwilling, it must then simply mean they are unable, as originally stated. Well placed in the current qualification group, I believe. END

[jp]

They deliver on the world stage for heavens sake - Makelele, Ronaldo, Heinze, Carvalho, Schevckenko, Ballack, Drogba, Kalou, Robben, Ferriera, Essien. I don't hear too much complaining from their respective nations about their ability to perform for their National teams. Petr Cech is considered to have performed pretty well at National level. Ryan Giggs has never been in a position to do anymore than he has for his National team, and can you honestly say that he hasn't given his all for his profession and his employer??? No ones talking about putting their lives on the line, don't be so silly, but one bad tackle and a couple of knee ops in his teens and he could have been working in a bakery and playing for Worcester City - its a fine line, and I would never have begrudged George Clegg that opportunity if fate had delivered a different hand (mind you he'd now be one of andy's numpties!!)
I have no idea what Gucci handbags have to do with the argument (maybe its something relating to that work of fiction Footballers Wives) but my wife has a Gucci handbag, so bleedin what? and I have a Rolex watch and a Mont Blanc pen, bought out of my earnings, again so bleedin what? If I'd been a professional footballer I'd have bought at least one Bentley and a couple of Ferraris, probably 246 Dino Spyder and a 328GTB, I can't see that as a big deal. And I doubt that anyone reading this would have done differently, would they?
I'm at a loss to understand what someone like John Terry has to do to satisfy you andy? Not sure how he is supposed to entertain you, maybe a spot of juggling whilst riding a unicycle? And I can't see how the players are getting the blame for the FA money not going down to grass roots level, thats an FA issue, one they should seriously look at that, if you want to call anyone numpties, then they're down at Soho Square!!!

[voiceofreason]

Ok maybe pr*cks is a bit harsh for the whole PL, but everyone to a man, connected with ManUre/Chavski are complete tossers; ::)That good enough?!
Numpties is far too polite......including some of those other pr*cks who've played in Cup Finals over the last 10 years or so.

[dorothy]

Paul Scholes, model professional sportsman or "complete tosser"?
Aside from the obvious that he cannot tackle, in my opinion I se him as a role model for my kids. You don't see him or his "trophy wife" in the press daily, don't see him getting arrested for fighting or drinking.
What does he do for charity? I've no idea.
What do I do for charity? That's between me and my concience.
If you can earn it feel free to spend it, that helps the economy.

[darrellbutler]

jp said:

Morten Gamst Pedersen,

9 1/2 out of 10, what dya rekon Gobby?

[jp]

darrena said:

Paul Scholes, model professional sportsman or "complete tosser"?
Aside from the obvious that he cannot tackle, in my opinion I se him as a role model for my kids. You don't see him or his "trophy wife" in the press daily, don't see him getting arrested for fighting or drinking.
What does he do for charity? I've no idea.
What do I do for charity? That's between me and my concience.
If you can earn it feel free to spend it, that helps the economy.

This idea that anyone connected with Man Utd or Chelsea is a tosser is just stupidity personified, there are plenty of excellent role models as players and people at both of those clubs, past and present and future. I don't consider George Clegg to be a tosser, just because he was considered as good enough to represent Man Utd in his chosen profession. Paul Scholes, definite role model, John Terry, definite role model, Claude Makele, whats he done to be considered a tosser??

[tim]

voiceofreason said:

Ok maybe pr*cks is a bit harsh for the whole PL, but everyone to a man, connected with ManUre/Chavski are complete tossers; ::)That good enough?!
Numpties is far too polite......including some of those other pr*cks who've played in Cup Finals over the last 10 years or so.

Typical VoR dross again. Don't you think it's about time you grew up?

[voiceofreason]

tim said:

voiceofreason said:

Ok maybe pr*cks is a bit harsh for the whole PL, but everyone to a man, connected with ManUre/Chavski are complete tossers; ::)That good enough?!
Numpties is far too polite......including some of those other pr*cks who've played in Cup Finals over the last 10 years or so.

Typical VoR dross again. Don't you think it's about time you grew up?

I have;I made the opinion they were as*holes many years ago.

Presumably if one's an adult, you'd realise that a significant minority of ones' contemporaries are a waste of space.........That's what you get with experience;you get to encounter plenty of them!
Old pros' I can stomach from pre the PL era, but the modern version of PL players are anodyne in the extreme........

[jp]

There was a good piece by Des Kelly in the Mail a couple of days ago on this subject. AS he said Jose Mourinho said to his players "Do you want to enjoy yourselves during the match? or after the match?" meaning its better to win ugly than lose pretty.