SHOULD ELVINS BE SACKED

[jimbo]

Without doubt YES

[voiceofreason]

Why?

What did he do?

[gazwcfc]

I missed what happened with Elvins but my friend said he lashed out at a Hampton player, if this is the case then saying he should be sacked is a bit of a overreaction, however missing important games during a relegation battle is poor conduct indeed, in my opinion a heavy fine would suffice. Also McGregor also lashed out at a hampton player and was lucky to stay on the field!

[zeke]

Then you must sack Shabir, too? 2 sendings off against the same player, 2 months apart!

[prestonwcfc]

Sacked No. Contract not renewed probably as will be the case I suspect with a number of this team. Elvins deserved to go as did McGregor 5 mins earlier. I am sure some harsh words will have been said afterwards Carls face was like thunder !

[jimbo]

Then you must sack Shabir, too? 2 sendings off against the same player, 2 months apart!

I'd agree with that as well, we're in a bl**dy relegation battle, there was no need to risk what either player did.

And yes, McGregor should be shown the door as well.

[georgethebassett]

Sam Bowen and Darren Bullock were sacked for violent conduct red card offences - I was at both games and agreed they had to go, but Elvins' offence on 90 + 4 sounds like sheer frustration to me - it didn't cost us the game.

[JohnInglisIsGod]

If such a thing would have happened in an office environment then I am sure that person would have been sacked
Because it happens in a sporting arena, for some reason it is seen as 'part of the game' or not deemed to be a sackable offence.
Cantona wasn't sacked, neither was Roy Keane after the Haaland challenge and I am sure you can highlight another 100+ examples too. They were both far worse than the incident yesterday. It is down to the club if they want to make an example, as they did with Bowen and Bullock, but that sets the precedent which they will need to keep to for each violent conduct. So Khan and Elvins should be sacked.
In my opinion I do not think either should be sacked. Internal discipline, certainly. Non renewal of contract, probably. A player could be sent off for violent conduct, wrongly. What a ref get something wrong??? Never! BUt what would happen if a ref did send off a player and he was found guilty of violent conduct but was totally innocent, provoked or looked far worse due to a player making the most if it? Do you sack him then? The only way to sort such a thing would be video evidence or a trial. It would never go to those lengths so because we could never be consistent then internal discipline is a must be, but sacking is a little extreme.

[zeke]

Players are only sacked, if the club doesn't really want them. Great players are highly unlikely to be sacked, because (a) you lose agreat player and (b) your rivals get a great player for free!

Rooney could theoretically get away with any sort of violence on the pitch and Man UTD will not sack him. They may fine him heavily and try and sell him, but he will never be sacked on the spot.

Question is. Do we need Elvins or Shab? If not then (if possible?) sack them and bring some better player in.

[Deleted]

Was Sam Bowen sacked? Or did he just fall out of favour and leave at the end of the season?

[ac]

He was released after the Telford game.

[voiceofreason]

Mar 7, 2010 16:09:28 GMT zeke said:

Players are only sacked, if the club doesn't really want them. Great players are highly unlikely to be sacked, because (a) you lose agreat player and (b) your rivals get a great player for free!

Rooney could theoretically get away with any sort of violence on the pitch and Man UTD will not sack him. They may fine him heavily and try and sell him, but he will never be sacked on the spot.

Question is. Do we need Elvins or Shab? If not then (if possible?) sack them and bring some better player in.

Well said, especially about Rooney.

Can we get anyone else at this stage?
Personally I can think of other people eg. Meredith & Wilding, whose performances on occasion, have been sufficiently sub-standard to question whether they should enjoy prolonged engagement....

[Deleted]

Wilding has been Player of the Month!!! So he must be one of our best players surely!

[prestonwcfc]

Whereas at times people can question Craigs performance I would not question his commitment or loyalty for the club. Nor does he go throwing punches as at least two players did yesterday. Performance is one thing, lack of discipline is another.

[voiceofreason]

I did say, on occasion.

Punches are usually just thrown in frustration. For which the ref. is at least minisculely to blame!
However professionals should be more disciplined!

[jupu]

It’s nonsense to say that what happened with Bowen and Bullock sets a precedent. That was 8-10 years ago, under a different manager, and what they did was hardly comparable what Rob Elvins did yesterday. Hands were raised, and made contact, but I didn’t see any punches thrown, either by Elvins or McGregor. I have no doubt that Rob’s actions were borne out of frustration, we should have had a penalty when he was fouled in the box just before, but on current form there’s no certainty we would have converted it anyway.

Whether contracts are renewed or not at the end of the season will depend to some extent on what league we’re playing in. On yesterday’s showing, I think relegation is a distinct possibility. We’ve lost 4 home games out of 5 and have only won once away all season. It will all come down to keeping up with whatever Lewes do from now on and hoping we can beat them at home, but in all honesty I can’t see what more the players we have can give.

There is a clear lack of self-discipline however and it's worrying that Carl hasn't been able to address it. Having players missing through suspension might well be the difference between us being relegated or not. Carl now faces having Shab, Elvins, Clyde and Kemp all out, what are the chances of the King having to play in the back four himself?

[Deleted]

I agree with jupu (second time today) There is no precedence, and these situations are all judged on individual merits (if thats the right word) I think Sam Bowen was harshly treated if he was sacked, it was a poor challenge but not as bad as Shabirs against Newport which should have been a double red! Bullock was rightly shown the door for his thuggery. All of which pails into insignificance compared to Paul Rowlands perfectly landed upper cut on the chin of the Waterlooville physio which knocked him right off his feet and in need of an ambulance!!
Bernie Wrights destruction of Mick Tuohys nose was worthy of sacking, but I don't think that even got a red card.
Tempers flare in football matches, and there's a fine line between commitment and indiscipline, and some players cross it on occasions. I bet that managers would have told Carl when he was playing to go out and let the opposing forward "know you're there" in the first five minutes of the game. But getting a straight red in the dying seconds of a game is simply silly, and although in itself not a sacking offence, its the implications of the 4 match ban, and the overall silliness of it that has to be dealt with by Carl now.
Shabir and Elvins have both been sent off twice against the same opposition, they've been probably been worked at throughout the game, and finally lost the plot, which shows more than anything a lack of maturity.

[Tim Munslow]

I didn't see the incident so I can't defend Rob Elvins, but I thought his "penalty" a few moments before was a dive, whereas Craig Dundas's for Hampton was not (and he had been a thorn in our side all afternoon). However, why did the ref brandish a red card at a Hampton player and then not dismiss him?

Basically we were crap on Saturday, and this was relegation form surely?

If Elvins and Shabir are retained they need to attend anger management lectures.

[prestonwcfc]

Tim

The first red card was shown to Josh Emery who quite rightly couldn't believe it (as it was the wrong player). Somebody then pointed this out and Elvins got the subsequent red.

[city4evaa]

Mar 8, 2010 15:34:28 GMT Tim Munslow said:

I didn't see the incident so I can't defend Rob Elvins, but I thought his "penalty" a few moments before was a dive, whereas Craig Dundas's for Hampton was not (and he had been a thorn in our side all afternoon). However, why did the ref brandish a red card at a Hampton player and then not dismiss him?

Basically we were crap on Saturday, and this was relegation form surely?

If Elvins and Shabir are retained they need to attend anger management lectures.

i also thought the ref sent off a hampton player

[city4evaa]

Mar 8, 2010 15:34:28 GMT Tim Munslow said:

I didn't see the incident so I can't defend Rob Elvins, but I thought his "penalty" a few moments before was a dive, whereas Craig Dundas's for Hampton was not (and he had been a thorn in our side all afternoon). However, why did the ref brandish a red card at a Hampton player and then not dismiss him?

Basically we were crap on Saturday, and this was relegation form surely?

If Elvins and Shabir are retained they need to attend anger management lectures.

i also thought the ref sent off a hampton player

[jimbo]

But getting a straight red in the dying seconds of a game is simply silly, and although in itself not a sacking offence, its the implications of the 4 match ban, and the overall silliness of it that has to be dealt with by Carl now.
Shabir and Elvins have both been sent off twice against the same opposition, they've been probably been worked at throughout the game, and finally lost the plot, which shows more than anything a lack of maturity.

Exactly the point I was making............ This numpty ( & Shabby for that matter) know what dire straights we're in. If we go down a lot of the blame can be aimed directly at both players who have been showing enough talent to help us stay up !

[Deleted]

Not sure sacking young men because of their lack of maturity is really good management.

[JohnInglisIsGod]

Mar 8, 2010 18:56:02 GMT @city4evaa said:

Mar 8, 2010 15:34:28 GMT Tim Munslow said:

I didn't see the incident so I can't defend Rob Elvins, but I thought his "penalty" a few moments before was a dive, whereas Craig Dundas's for Hampton was not (and he had been a thorn in our side all afternoon). However, why did the ref brandish a red card at a Hampton player and then not dismiss him?

Basically we were crap on Saturday, and this was relegation form surely?

If Elvins and Shabir are retained they need to attend anger management lectures.

i also thought the ref sent off a hampton player

The ref did send off a Hampton player.
As I mentioned in apost somewhere else. i spoke to the H&R skipper after the game (Dean Wells who took over in goal). The ref didnt actually see the incident and wasnt going to take any action. The two assistants stepped in and told him what happened. The girl saw it all, she got a good position. The ref got all hot headed and dived in. 1st of all he sent of the Hampton numnber 8 (who should have been sent off earlier for kicking the ball away but that is by the by) he then sent off Josh , the assistans told him he had got it wrong and said it's the number 4, so he sent off the H&R number 4. The other assistant said wrong number 4 and finally he sent off Elvins.
he also told the bench that there would be 4 minutes of added time but blew the whilstle on 90 minutes because he had totally lost it by then. He didnt have a clue and both sides agreed on that!

[JohnInglisIsGod]

Mar 8, 2010 20:35:02 GMT Down The Pan said:

Not sure sacking young men because of their lack of maturity is really good management.

Fine them might be a better solution. At a higher level they would probably sell them on. They are a liability getting sent off and banned for so long. Sacking them just means someone else will pick them up for nothing. An investment (even if only wages) has been put itno them and anything a club can get back for them makes it worth selling rather than sacking.
You can understand the frustration of both players but that needs to be controlled and at a professional level that can be done, but as they are only part time and Carl can't work with them 7 days a week that just isn't going to happen.

[city4evaa]

Mar 9, 2010 8:51:04 GMT JohnInglisIsGod said:

Mar 8, 2010 18:56:02 GMT @city4evaa said:

i also thought the ref sent off a hampton player

The ref did send off a Hampton player.
As I mentioned in apost somewhere else. i spoke to the H&R skipper after the game (Dean Wells who took over in goal). The ref didnt actually see the incident and wasnt going to take any action. The two assistants stepped in and told him what happened. The girl saw it all, she got a good position. The ref got all hot headed and dived in. 1st of all he sent of the Hampton numnber 8 (who should have been sent off earlier for kicking the ball away but that is by the by) he then sent off Josh , the assistans told him he had got it wrong and said it's the number 4, so he sent off the H&R number 4. The other assistant said wrong number 4 and finally he sent off Elvins.
he also told the bench that there would be 4 minutes of added time but blew the whilstle on 90 minutes because he had totally lost it by then. He didnt have a clue and both sides agreed on that!