Death of a Football Club

[Mark]

I know things have been getting steadily worse from the point of view of attendances but for the first time on Saturday, I really got the feeling that those of us who went to the game on Saturday were witnessing the beginning of the end for WCFC.

Say what you like about it being a bloody cold day on the run-up to Christmas but an attendance of 647 for a game against the team at the top of the league is really poor.

Was it just me or was there an atmosphere of gloom about the place that had not been so evident before?

[Deleted]

I've so much lost interest in going to games now, that I didn't even know there was a game on Saturday. the only time I realised it was when I came on here and saw the result. It wasn't even a case of staying away as some form of protest, just total apathy and ignorance on my part. I had nothing better to do, and just watched TV all afternoon (rugby - Wales v Australia) and played table tennis with my lad.
Cold days (or even better cold Monday nights) used to be so special at SGL.
As Ealing has pointed out, that special magic, of meeting with a few friends, having a laugh about football, football supporters, and other weighty matters, has evaporated. And the characters who brought the magic together have left the scene, never to return I fear.
If I can offer up some advice to the Board it would be to forget the people who've been doing "The Lane" for the last god knows how many years (Simon Williams, you got that one completely wrong) and concentrate on finding and attracting a new set of 500+ supporters to create a new atmosphere in a new club.
Its not a question of negativity, its a question of reality, of realising that our particular dream is now over. Personally, I don't care a jot about watching some Division 2 game against Scunthorpe in some soulless two sided fully segregated concrete structure next to a SAAB dealership. Or "entertaining" Cardiff or Hereford so-called fans after they've torn up the town centre for no apparent reason. Give me the fun and banter of Newport County or Gloucester City fans anyday.
I know I'm at odds with others about club ambitions, but the board should consider this, if they are working to an expectation of delivering League football in 10 years, then thats possibly 10 years more of non-league football that they've got to deliver, and I don't see one person on that Board who really understand the dynamics of a non-league football club, as was clearly shown by Jim Panters comments at the Supporters Trust meeting (that's "Supporters Trust" Mr Hampson, not "Shareholders Trust") where he was talking of how the debt could be reduced simply by 1000 supporters putting in an extra £1 a week! They didn't take too kindly to my comment that another idea might be that 10 directors put in £5k each to show some real commitment, after all its always the supporters who are told to show their commitment by paying more. As Barry Ward (a man who knows a thing or two about football) says, football is not like many other businesses, directors have to put money in, not take money out, nor take freebies, and non-league is no different in fact its probably more pertinent.
In fact here's a thought, as we are so short of money, with a big overdraft and no cash, why don't all the Directors forego any perks, and pay the going rate for all games??? That would go some way towards matching the commitment of supporters.
Unless there is a change of attitude from the Board, and a drive for new supporters, then I agree, the club dies. The sad part of this though is that the death of the club has no impact on the major players on the Board, so long as they get some form of football ground at Nunnery Way.

[oldboyblue]

I am getting a sense of people thowing their dummy out of the pram,
The shareholders have spoken and we must live with it.
I believe the supporters should do more, any football club relies on gate,raffles sponsors etc etc, and i am surprised at those who say they have the club at heart and didn't buy shares until this current turmoil, those who want the directors to add more money but don't buy a half time draw ticket or participate in team builders etc. It is very easy to ask the directors to put money in, but would you, would the trust, would any of the rejected proposed directors?
As for the social club. I remember those who said they would go in after a smoking ban. Guess what? they didn't. I used to go to the popular new years eve party at the club, and guess what, it was the same faces every year.
Not one volunteer was forth coming from all the supporters to provide a bottle of champagne for Octobers player of the month.
The supporters are just as much to blame here

[Deleted]

Oldboyblue, your niaivety and innocence is very refreshing, but totally misguided.
Firstly, those who say they have the club at heart and only bought shares during this current turmoil are.......the directors! I suggest you check the shareholder register to see how many new share purchases were made. And anyway, why do you denounce anyone who is prepared to put a cash gift into the club in the form of shares (minimum of £50) and then have a go at supporters for not buying a £5 bottle of champagne to give to a player - which one is worth more to the club? How much money does the football club get out of the bottle of champagne given to a player? None.
Whats the profit on the half time draw? What is of more value, getting 10 more people to buy a half time draw ticket, or to get 5 companies to start paying for their adverts around the ground?? Football clubs rely on raffles? get real. Football clubs at our level rely on generous benfactors and corporate support - end of!! Why should WCFC be any different to just about every other club in the country in the way it is financed?? As someone who has done Teambuilder, Superpool, raised money through tombolas, volunteer stewarding, funded the website, and managed the website, paid for Big Match (even on a place not taken up when DP dislocated his hip - I didn't ask for a refund!), worked with Directors on funding initiatives and community initiatives, and incidentally, given 2 bottles of champagne for player of the month, I firstly don't think its some kind of pissing contest for supporters, and secondly, I don't feel in anyway aggreived that other supporters havent done likewise. I did it because I wanted to, I don't expect other supporters to do the same.
Whether people went into the Social Club after the smoking ban is irrelevent, the proper corporate decision would have been to shut the place down, shutting it down would have kept more revenue in the club, thats a fact as can be seen from the write-off.
You ask whether any of the rejected proposed directors would put money int othe club? Well Martin Pinches has put more into the club than any of us, and Derek Jones guaranteed £20,000 per annum to the club - so I guess the answer to that one is yes.
I don't know, you'll be blaming people for not buying enough flatpack kitchens from MFI next!!!

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

Dec 1, 2008 13:24:48 GMT @oldboyblue said:

I am getting a sense of people thowing their dummy out of the pram,
The shareholders have spoken and we must live with it.
I believe the supporters should do more, any football club relies on gate,raffles sponsors etc etc, and i am surprised at those who say they have the club at heart and didn't buy shares until this current turmoil, those who want the directors to add more money but don't buy a half time draw ticket or participate in team builders etc. It is very easy to ask the directors to put money in, but would you, would the trust, would any of the rejected proposed directors?

As for the social club. I remember those who said they would go in after a smoking ban. Guess what? they didn't. I used to go to the popular new years eve party at the club, and guess what, it was the same faces every year.
Not one volunteer was forth coming from all the supporters to provide a bottle of champagne for Octobers player of the month.
The supporters are just as much to blame here

Tell me why supporters should purchase half time draw tickets, when the money will be wasted by the man who is supposed to run the bar?

Until the situation of the bar is sorted out by the board my money stays in my pocket.

Hampson asked for persons to make offers or suggestions as how to make the bar pay. He has only to look at the offers made by the two persons who made the HK lounge pay and make a profit.

[greenman]

Could not agree with you more Jeremy, particularly as two of the new Directors have only purchased 250 shares each. They should read Barry Norgrove's article on the KHFC website and understand their role.

I dread to think of their reaction when the Bank

Why would you support financially a board that did not even have the business nous' to ensure you had 'on board' two people who between them were contributing and would have contributed £35000.

No the decision makers preferred to have yes men surrounding them to ensure the easy route to Nunnery Way, hopefully, and then dissapear.

[richwidd]

Dec 1, 2008 13:24:48 GMT @oldboyblue said:

I am getting a sense of people thowing their dummy out of the pram,
The shareholders have spoken and we must live with it.
I believe the supporters should do more, any football club relies on gate,raffles sponsors etc etc, and i am surprised at those who say they have the club at heart and didn't buy shares until this current turmoil, those who want the directors to add more money but don't buy a half time draw ticket or participate in team builders etc. It is very easy to ask the directors to put money in, but would you, would the trust, would any of the rejected proposed directors?
As for the social club. I remember those who said they would go in after a smoking ban. Guess what? they didn't. I used to go to the popular new years eve party at the club, and guess what, it was the same faces every year.
Not one volunteer was forth coming from all the supporters to provide a bottle of champagne for Octobers player of the month.
The supporters are just as much to blame here

OldBoyBlue, what a complete load of rubbish.

Your new Board has just rejected:

1. The Clubs Main Sponsor

2. Am ex Director who put in more money than all of the others put together over the past ten years, who would take 60 people at £30 a head to End of Season Dinners etc. A man who has paid for transfer fees, contributed to players wages, paid for the managers expenses because the Club is so broke.

3. A man who has saved several clubs and moved one League Club to a new Ground, and who had also stated that Directors would have to put a significant amount of money into WCFC - you can guess why he was not popular with this Board.

4. A man who contributed more to the youth at this Club in a year and a half than any of the old duffers on the Board in the past 10 years.

But voted for:

1. A new Director who stands to make a significant amount of money if NW happens (never mind if it is good for WCFC)

2. A Director who is paid to "run" the Social Club but has never made a profit

3. A Director who is paid to run the superpool, but won't produce any figures

4. A Director who is paid as a consultant

5. A Director whose uses WCFC to further the interests of companies he is involved with, but doesn't declare it.

6. A Director who only does the job so he can get the benefits of his £40odd per month Directors Fees.

7. A Director who didn't even know he had been elected to the Board

Four of them couldn't even be bothered to turn up on Friday evening

And The Company Secretary who was caught red handed, alone, counting the Proxy forms on behalf of the independent scrutineeer after the vote had closed on Wednesday evening. It is hardly a suprise that one supporter who put in a proxy form but attended the meeting, withdrew his proxy form only to find his signature had been forged.

As for the social club. It was dead long before the smoking ban.

The Club has hardly any sponsors, they can't afford to lose anymore. As they have just publicly voted against Martin Pinches Why would he want to support them anymore?

Let's hope all of these "shareholders" who "voted" turn up to help their new chums - I doubt it very much!

[wh]

Dec 1, 2008 15:59:22 GMT richwidd said:

It is hardly a suprise that one supporter who put in a proxy form but attended the meeting, withdrew his proxy form only to find his signature had been forged.

Says it all really!.
I hope the effected person is prepared to take this forgery further?

Serial swindlers!

[birdfeeder]

Dec 1, 2008 15:59:22 GMT richwidd said:

Dec 1, 2008 13:24:48 GMT @oldboyblue said:

I am getting a sense of people thowing their dummy out of the pram,
The shareholders have spoken and we must live with it.
I believe the supporters should do more, any football club relies on gate,raffles sponsors etc etc, and i am surprised at those who say they have the club at heart and didn't buy shares until this current turmoil, those who want the directors to add more money but don't buy a half time draw ticket or participate in team builders etc. It is very easy to ask the directors to put money in, but would you, would the trust, would any of the rejected proposed directors?
As for the social club. I remember those who said they would go in after a smoking ban. Guess what? they didn't. I used to go to the popular new years eve party at the club, and guess what, it was the same faces every year.
Not one volunteer was forth coming from all the supporters to provide a bottle of champagne for Octobers player of the month.
The supporters are just as much to blame here

OldBoyBlue, what a complete load of rubbish.

Your new Board has just rejected:

1. The Clubs Main Sponsor

2. Am ex Director who put in more money than all of the others put together over the past ten years, who would take 60 people at £30 a head to End of Season Dinners etc. A man who has paid for transfer fees, contributed to players wages, paid for the managers expenses because the Club is so broke.

3. A man who has saved several clubs and moved one League Club to a new Ground, and who had also stated that Directors would have to put a significant amount of money into WCFC - you can guess why he was not popular with this Board.

4. A man who contributed more to the youth at this Club in a year and a half than any of the old duffers on the Board in the past 10 years.

But voted for:

1. A new Director who stands to make a significant amount of money if NW happens (never mind if it is good for WCFC)

2. A Director who is paid to "run" the Social Club but has never made a profit

3. A Director who is paid to run the superpool, but won't produce any figures

4. A Director who is paid as a consultant

5. A Director whose uses WCFC to further the interests of companies he is involved with, but doesn't declare it.

6. A Director who only does the job so he can get the benefits of his £40odd per month Directors Fees.

7. A Director who didn't even know he had been elected to the Board

Four of them couldn't even be bothered to turn up on Friday evening

And The Company Secretary who was caught red handed, alone, counting the Proxy forms on behalf of the independent scrutineeer after the vote had closed on Wednesday evening. It is hardly a suprise that one supporter who put in a proxy form but attended the meeting, withdrew his proxy form only to find his signature had been forged.

As for the social club. It was dead long before the smoking ban.

The Club has hardly any sponsors, they can't afford to lose anymore. As they have just publicly voted against Martin Pinches Why would he want to support them anymore?

Let's hope all of these "shareholders" who "voted" turn up to help their new chums - I doubt it very much!

What is number 6 Director fees?

[Deleted]

I'm getting rather pissed off with being told I've "thrown my toys out of the pram". I've been putting money into the coffers at WCFC for over fifty years. Like many, equally mature, shareholders and supporters I've had enough. I've just got back from the bank after canceling my standing orders. This hasn't been some petulant outburst, it's the result of some long soul searching. I've loved the club since I first went through the gates. It's been a major part of my life. I've contributed in any way I could through years that have seen bad times, terrible teams and some seriously crooked activity.

The present situation is, however, different and more ominous than ever before. The reason is this bunch of directors want to sell SGL - and not for the good of the club. I believe there has been, and still is, serious fraudulent activity taking place at the Lane. If we pursue the current plan we will end up with no SGL and a worthless plot of land at NW. AND we will still be in debt.

And Hallmark and co, as they have admitted, will just walk away.

When some others on here stopped going to matches etc. I must admit I thought they were mad - and in some way disloyal. I never thought I'd do the same. However, the more I hear and see the more I'm convinced that giving the board more money is like paying for your own execution.

If I didn't care I wouldn't be either so angry; nor in so much pain. I wish I didn't care, it would be easier. However, don't mistake people like myself not contributing to the club as a sign we're doing nothing. Far from it. I hope to see some people behind bars for what they've done.

[Tim Munslow]

Well, I'm afraid I'm at odds with you Andy. However loaded the vote by the present Board's share muscle that IS the decision, and whether we like it or not (and I voted against the present Board so I don't particularly like it) we are now stuck with it. I shall continue to support WCFC - that's what supporters do.

The rest of you who have now decided to withdraw your support can no longer call yourselves supporters and shouldn't be posting on here in the future.

[creaner]

Dec 1, 2008 18:20:25 GMT Tim Munslow said:

The rest of you who have now decided to withdraw your support can no longer call yourselves supporters and shouldn't be posting on here in the future.

So much for free speech then...

[ac]

I support the team on the pitch. I do not however support or wish to fund those off the pitch that pay their £40 a month and possibly stand to gain financially from the club moving to Nunnery Way. How many of the current board are doing it for the good of the club and have a genuine interest in how the team is doing and would still be there without all the "perks" of the job. The £11admission a match goes towards what exactly- an ever dwindling transfer/players wages fund, the debt of the social club, the paying of wages for a director to run said social club, subsidising directors facilities-coach/food/drink- including IDIFF I expect.
I didn't go to the game on Saturday as I had other things to do, I would however had made a lot more of an effort to go previously without knowing what I know now.
I'm hoping that people don't just "fade away" as DB seems to want to happen.
Is there a shareholder's right to appeal the AGM- in terms of the point that TM raised about the voting?
I just keep being more and more appalled with the more and more I hear- the AGM hasn't ended the boardroom disputes- merely brought more things to light.

[DazaB]

Dec 1, 2008 18:20:25 GMT Tim Munslow said:

Well, I'm afraid I'm at odds with you Andy. However loaded the vote by the present Board's share muscle that IS the decision, and whether we like it or not (and I voted against the present Board so I don't particularly like it) we are now stuck with it. I shall continue to support WCFC - that's what supporters do.

The rest of you who have now decided to withdraw your support can no longer call yourselves supporters and shouldn't be posting on here in the future.

So, you've read Mr Boddy's Labour Party/ NSDAP style quote in the NLP then... "I hope they just fade away"

Believe me, his idiocy in that comment has incensed me more than anything.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2008 18:20:25 GMT Tim Munslow said:

Well, I'm afraid I'm at odds with you Andy. However loaded the vote by the present Board's share muscle that IS the decision, and whether we like it or not (and I voted against the present Board so I don't particularly like it) we are now stuck with it. I shall continue to support WCFC - that's what supporters do.

The rest of you who have now decided to withdraw your support can no longer call yourselves supporters and shouldn't be posting on here in the future.

But how about if the decision is made in an unfair way Tim? Do you accept an unfair decision without question? I know its frightfully British to just show a stiff upper lip, but things have to be questioned.
For instance, at the AGM, after the show of hands re. the accounts, Hampson said "well I think that goes with the yes's" We could all have just accepted that, mumbled away a bit, but just left it. Fair do's to VOR who demanded a count - and the count went in favour of the "No's" by one. All because of a question.
Believe me - this is the time that we need to fight to save our club, if you really support this club, do what Wayne has said - ask yourself the awkward questions. Its taken many years to get to a point where questions have been asked about the Social Club in the way they now have, and if a proper audit and investigation of the Social Club takes place, it may unearth other unknown problems.
This is grubby, and I don't like the club I support to be this grubby. It has to stop somehow, and we will NOT fade away

[Deleted]

"if a proper audit and investigation of the Social Club takes place"

Isn't it possible that the audit will be just be another whitewash that is then passed by the board?

[Deleted]

Hence the IF!

[Deleted]

I wasn't being that flippant (honest!). Who does the re-audit? The same people who did it last time? If they didn't incorporate things like Mr Prescott's wages last time, how dependable/competent are they?

[Deleted]

I think that by the time they are provided with various bits of additional information, it will be in their interests to be both dependable and competent.

[gobby cow]

The 2006 accounts had an adverse auditors report, that means that they did not agree them as they were materially misleading, ie, totally wrong! The auditors would have tried to make them factual and the board obviously refused. Looks if 2007 is going the same way.

How are the 2008 accounts coming along???

[michael]

Dec 1, 2008 21:04:55 GMT Down The Pan said:

Dec 1, 2008 18:20:25 GMT Tim Munslow said:

Well, I'm afraid I'm at odds with you Andy. However loaded the vote by the present Board's share muscle that IS the decision, and whether we like it or not (and I voted against the present Board so I don't particularly like it) we are now stuck with it. I shall continue to support WCFC - that's what supporters do.

The rest of you who have now decided to withdraw your support can no longer call yourselves supporters and shouldn't be posting on here in the future.

But how about if the decision is made in an unfair way Tim? Do you accept an unfair decision without question? I know its frightfully British to just show a stiff upper lip, but things have to be questioned.
For instance, at the AGM, after the show of hands re. the accounts, Hampson said "well I think that goes with the yes's" We could all have just accepted that, mumbled away a bit, but just left it. Fair do's to VOR who demanded a count - and the count went in favour of the "No's" by one. All because of a question.
Believe me - this is the time that we need to fight to save our club, if you really support this club, do what Wayne has said - ask yourself the awkward questions. Its taken many years to get to a point where questions have been asked about the Social Club in the way they now have, and if a proper audit and investigation of the Social Club takes place, it may unearth other unknown problems.
This is grubby, and I don't like the club I support to be this grubby. It has to stop somehow, and we will NOT fade away

From where I was sitting it appeared that more people put up their hands to reject the accounts the second time. I think he was probably right that more hands went up to approve them the first time. The only errror was in not counting then.

[Deleted]

You mean some people changed their minds??

[michael]

No. I mean some people didnt put their hands up either way the first time.

[Deleted]

their prerogative I guess

[michael]

absolutely.

but you cant question Hampson because of this can you? he's not fiddled the figures, they were simply two different figures.

[StopfordianWCFC]

Dec 2, 2008 17:52:25 GMT michael said:

No. I mean some people didnt put their hands up either way the first time.

I agree with that observation.

[Deleted]

Dec 2, 2008 20:04:11 GMT michael said:

absolutely.

but you cant question Hampson because of this can you? he's not fiddled the figures, they were simply two different figures.

I'm not questioning Hampson, in fact I have been in constructive dialogue with Hampson regarding this and other matters. Like you I agree that he appears a genuine bloke, and in the coming weeks he has some tough calls to make, and it will be interesting to see if he makes them.

[niels]

I agree with Michael and Manc about more people voting against second time. However it became clear that many had not heard, or realised, what was being voted on first time round.

[oldboyblue]

One overiding theme I see is the attack on the social club, to focus on them for the club ill's is like blaming the Woolworths cafe for it's demise.
What about the catering contract or advertising revenue?
or unrealistic demands from supporters?

[ac]

Dec 3, 2008 12:24:06 GMT @oldboyblue said:

or unrealistic demands from supporters?

Like wanting to buy a Mars Bar from the burger van?