Poor attendances

[suv]

I don't subscribe to the "Good Weather Theory". If it had been raining on Saturday, the gate against Harrogate would of been even lower not higher!!!

[blackpole]

"Unfortunately the constant lack of progress towards a new stadium and the boards approach of telling us every 6 months that something is imminent .... "

This definately pisses everyone off! It raises it's head every so often, and hopes get raised, and then .....

[blackpole]

and I'll add that £10 is too much for a team that doesn't look like success is around the corner! £8, and kids for a quid would shock people with the response, unfortunately, the club lack the bottle to try it for a month or so. They now have sixways to contend with - on the doorstep, and a safe haven for the glory hunters that Worcester is filled with ! Against Huddersfield i had a guy wearing a rugby top ask me at half time where the toilets were .... "same place as last week" was my reply ... that sums it up that if the games were big enough, the support is there week in week out! We will not get that success until a gamble is taken to go for it! Face it, we're in decline as it's going now, so lets at least go down fighting!

[cg]

Why is anyone who dares to stray to Sixways immediately dismissed as a 'glory hunter'. The rugby club are, and have been, involved in lots of initivatives that cost very little money but help attract new supporters. That's how they've grown from 100 to 10,000 in ten years or so. Success is a key part but not the only reason.

Maybe, just maybe, some people actually prefer rugby to football - if they venture down the Lane for a big cup tie lets try to get them back again.

Lets face it Worcester as a city has also expanded hugely since WCFC were a decent team in the (old) AP league - the newcomers (or youngsters) are unlikely to have much to do with the club unless more is done to actively encourage them along.

If the only welcome they are going to get is 'whwre we you when john Inglis was knocking 'em in', is it small wonder we aren't picking up new fans?

The loss of, roughly, 20% of home fans this season is worrying and needs addressing with imaginative solutions.

[B*ue dragonstander]

I hope that all this will blow over if the Board - who'se limited resource will quite correctly have been 100% on cracking a deal for the new Dragon's Den - achieve their aim for an EGM/AGM before Christmas. The sense of renewal, urgency and vibrancy will return. From then on new plans can be laid (in the way that cg outlines) to reach out to the community as there will be an attractive marketable product on view. In short City will start to look sexy again. I have no doubt that the Board has the marketing skills to capitalise effectively. Clearly whilst the future is uncertain as things stand the stay aways and non believers will not be brought back into the fold.

[colinlayland]

As a true supporter of Worcester City Football Club, and having watched every game so far this season, good and bad, and will continue to do so, I am sick and tired of the moanings of the so called supporters who come on here and attack the club; whether it's the players, the manager, or the board of Directors. The thing I find most annoying is that some of them don't bother to go to any of the games, for what ever reason, and yet they think they know the answers to the club's problems, on and off the pitch. Please do me and all the real supporters a favour and shut up, and that includes you Jeremy. You seem to fancy yourself as a barrack room lawyer and you are very good at whipping up controversy from a distance. Whatever the future holds for Worcester City Football Club, good or bad, at least we true fans can hold our hands up and say we stood by the club.

[villager]

Agree Colin.

Real supporters should stick at it through the good times and bad.

It might be disheartening to see teams like Telford build a new stadium, go to the wall and bounce back stronger. Would we want that for WCFC?

[DrAgony]

Very well said, Mr Layland!

The predecessor of this messageboard was so ridiculously negative that it must have put many people off. The fact that the Assistant Manager was forced to use the press to defend the players from the comments on that messageboard says it all.

Although this current messageboard is far better it can still give the wrongful impression that supporting City is a painful thing to do. Yet anyone who attended the match on Saturday must surely have been impressed by the efforts of the team in the 2nd half - and they were quite rightly applauded from the pitch by all.

It was drama & entertainment worth £10 of anyone's money.

[cg]

Sorry BDS I know what you're saying but I don't wholly buy into that theory. I agree that until plans for the much-vaunted ground move are finalised and, more importantly, achieved and a clear vision is presented to the local public then there is unlikely to be a discernable upturn in support.

But the devil will be in the detail and it is still a long way off.

If the move doesn't achieve the goals of killing the club's mounting debts, having a FL quality ground - which it owns and therefore avoids paying rent which could push the club financially back to where it is now - then there is no point in relocating at all.

The silence of recent months has, once again, been deafening which suggests all is not progressing as smoothly as promised.

And simply moving home doesn't neccesarily draw in new fans. Looks at the likes of Stoke City since they moved to the Britannia, for example.

The board will also have to show the sort of 'marketing skills' they've conspiciously failed to display in the past otherwise we wouldn't have this debate or this thread. It is going to a massive challenge for them and I don't think anyone should underestimate the problems they may encounter. They deserve our support but......

.... the immediate drop in crowds will bite into budgets and needs addressing now - and it looks like it may be a bit more serious than a couple of back-to-back home wins will correct.

[jeremypitt]

Enlighten me Colin - Show me where I have attacked the club, the players, the manager or the Board of Directors in this post? THe original question was a very simple one - What are peoples thoughts on why the club has lost 150-200 supporters? I gave my thoughts. I'm not saying they are THE reason, but they are simply my thoughts. Are you suggesting that peoples thoughts should be suppressed if they don't appeal to you? I hope you don't take that view into any of your political activities. I do notice in true political fashion though that you don't profer any of your thoughts as to the drop in the crowd - taking the easy option of sitting on the fence fiddling as Rome burns and taking cheap shots at those who do offer opinions.
Sorry Colin but you've sounded out the wrong bloke here, I'm not moaning, or whipping up any type of controversy from any distance. I don't talk of negative uninspiring performances, or even bemoan the £10 admission charges. I just give one possible reason for the drop in supporters, which happens to be my reason - live with it.
So come on then Colin - a question was posed, so as a real supporter (Boy I now feel I must have wasted the last 30 years of my life as an unreal supporter!!!) What do YOU think could be the reasoning for lack of support. You're not under a whip now, you can talk freely and voice your opinion, if you have one that is.

[cg]

Well said KAFTAB. This thread is (supposed to be) an open forum about why support seems to have dwindled this season.

Suggesting fans should just be shut up, be blindly loyal and not express their views on why this may be does no one any good. Least of all the board, the players or management.

In fact - and here's a novel suggestion - it is precisely the sort of people who aren't dyed-to-the wool loyalists whose views should count most in this situation. They ought to be asked why they aren't coming any longer and, for that matter, why most of the goodly citizens of Worcester don't venture anywhere near SGL. Otherwise we're all just guessing

I know for a fact Norwich City phone their wavering supporters up and conduct all kinds of customer research then shape pricing policy and other requirements around that. Result: sell outs for the home section of most games at Carrow Road in the 2000s.

A club like WCFC doesn't have the resources to do this - so asking around is the next best option

If I was an occasional fan - and there is nowt wrong with that by the way chaps, we live in a free country - I'd get the distinct impression that those who claim to love the club the most don't actually want anyone else there.

Now where would that lead??

[jeremypitt]

Okay - lets take a different view, instead of trying to find the reasons for why people are not going to games, which obviously real supporters like Colin find negative (I guess in the same way that real employees don't go on strike, or real citizens don't abstain from voting) Why don't we consider ways of improving support in a positive fashion?
A couple of ideas of mine

Firstly matchdays, okay we have some kind of "Family Ticket" which is a two adult and two kids discount (not a family ticket as it excludes families of other sizes, and the two adults can just be two unrelated blokes taking two unrelated kids). But why not a real family ticket, which includes access to the D stand and make the D stand the family enclosure - this hardly takes money from the club as the D stand is as good as empty.

Secondly matchdays, school discounts - I know this has been done a bit in the past with leaflets sent out to schools offering free entry (but withan accompanying paying adult) But why not extend that and offer totally free access to schoolchildren from any school for particular matches - this could be arranged by the school via registration on the website. In that way the club doesnt have to print thousands of leaflets which get binned - just send leaflets or emails to headmasters at local primary schools offering facilities for matchdays via registration. This serves a second purpose of building a knowledge base of schools and colleges who are proactive in working with the football club.

Thirdly, drop the concession price completely to anyone under the age of 10 - they are all accompanied by an adult, and there arent hundreds already, so any new under 10s this attracts can be considered as new numbers.

Fourthly - stop allowing so many over 16s into the ground as concessions - proof of age should be shown, or proof of concession. you'd be surprised how many "real supporters" are quite happy to rip off the club in this way, and this used to include over 100 each week who didnt pay the additional £1 to get into the stand.

Fifthly - Engage the supporters in ground move activities - okay supporters can't be told everything about the groundfacts, however, likewise, the club and the Directors can't possibly know what would attract both existing supporters and new supporters to a new ground. As an example, what would be more important to the supporters, safe car parking or better catering facilities?

So, any other thoughts? Colin yours would be very very welcome as a real supporter.

[ab]

Positive suggestions will always be welcome, I assume. Some of those suggestions are like the freebies on the back of a packet of cereal. Does it really make a substantial difference to the Club if the attendance is 4,050, when the paying supporters number 900? It isnt a numbers game. It is about income.

There are as many different reasons why people will and will not go and watch Worcester City as there are individual people, as the postings above and on the WN site suggest.

The people paying 10 quid entrance fee are important. I dont think a few who have withdrawn their support will really make much difference, and if they do, the Club will no doubt adapt accordingly. Of perhaps greater importance to a non-league Club are the 30-50 people who do (or could do) much more for a Club than merely pay the 10 quid entrance fee.

Regrettably, some of those engaged in launching and establishing the Trust, or putting themselves forward as interested candidates to do so, now fall into the 'lost interest' camp or taking a principled position over some things that may have been said in their (or others) direction. With that 'lost interest' of individuals has disappeared one of the best opportunities for doing a number of things. That disinterest gives a wider message that those who were previously at the heart of 'mobilising' others interested in the future of the Club can now no longer themselves be bothered. So, why should anyone else who might have been on the margins of doing so?

[jeremypitt]

That is very true andy, however, I'm not sure that taking the line of "Come and watch Worcester City because we need your money!" has got much of an appeal. sure its about income, but that income comes from the pockets of the people of Worcester in the main. There is a population of around 100,000 in Worcester, the growth of the city in terms of housing has grown massively in the last 10 years. However, so many of the newcomers to Worcester know little of WCFC, big numbers have no idea where SGL even is (I found this out when petitioning for the new ground some years ago up at Tesco Warndon) So if you can't get back the people who have moved to pastures new for any number of reasons, how do you attract new supporters?
My question would not be along the lines of the negative view of these types of suggestions being merely "freebies off a cereal packet that make no difference" but more along the lines of "Can these kinds of initiatives do any harm?" If the answer is no, then surely by trying some out, the worst case scenario is a status quo.
I personally think that it is very much a numbers game and it would be folly to consider WCFC to be some form of elite club just for those who pay. After all, if we have 900 paying on average say £5 then thats £4500 a game, would it be more beneficial for the club to have 100 paying £50 to watch? More income yes, but hardly sustainable or sensible.
Is it any coincidence that freebies on the back of a cereals packet are responsible for the financial success of companies like Kellogs and Nestle - and whats in your cupboards, Kellogs Rice Krispies or Tesco Krispy Rice (or wahtever its called) Underestimate the power of the the cereal packet freebie at your peril.

[bcfcfan]

Hi, new user here.

I think the problems at Worcester are similar to many clubs up and down the country. I moved to Worcester four years ago and go down to SGL on an occasional basis.

The problems seem much like the problems at my own club, Birmingham. Low crowds, no atmosphere, high prices and no success.

What I think is quite annoying too is that in two of the friendlies i went to Worcester, looked really good bu they haven't been able to bring that into the league season.

[suv]

ab

the above post "establishing the trust" is a category that I now find myself in. I was never going to establish the "Trust" or become a "Candidate" for it, however I would of joined and supported its efforts.
Now I find myself in the "Loosing Interest" category, not down to:- new ground, board of directors, manager/assistant, tenner a week, sunny weather etc etc ....but to football results, since the middle of last season (when we had the best oppourtunity for promotion in years and blew it), I've been loosing intrest and if we don't perform against Tamworth then travelling away (missed burscough so far) may cease for me until the football improves.
TAFKAB asks colinlayland for some improvement ideas, how about start winning football matches?

[jeremypitt]

Suv, unfortunately that is something that supporters, real or unreal, or in Ealings case surreal, can have no influence over. To be honest we havent won many (or enough) matches over the last 25 years, I remember when we were relegated, travelling to places like Barnet and Telford, hoping for a miracle which would lift us out of the relegation zone, but inside knowing it was never going to happen. Yet I still came back for more, each season hoping and hoping. through the lost years of the 90's, the depression years under Barry Connally, the endless managerial changes (any assistant manager at city at the time knew he'd be manager by the end of the season, and out the door at the beginning of the next one). So that doesnt really answer the question of why there's been such a major falling off of numbers this season.

[ab]

Cant disagree that winning football matches will help, and the simplicity of the argument, Suv.

But to be honest, our form - on a like for like basis, isnt that much different from last year.

We lost to Hyde and drew with Harrogate, but it was the reverse results last year. I accept that we beat Kettering last year. Drew at Hinckley last year, but won there this year. That's one point difference in four.

Hard to compare Telford and Burscough away, 'cos I'm not sure who they are replacing, but we lost at Scarborough, Droylsden and Farsley. The three points at Lancaster were pretty meaningless 'cos everyone took six points off them. So, maybe if Scarborogh are Telford, and Burscough are Worksop, we are three points down on last year.

If Tamworth are Droylsden or Farsley, a draw would be better than last year.

Leigh and Solihull are two big upcoming home games - took nothing off either last year, and hopefully the injury situation will have recovered by the time we go into them. A win against either will put us at least where we were in equivalent games last year, and anything extra will put us ahead. Then we have Alfreton away, where we did win last year.

Off the next four games, we took three points last year. I would stake quite a lot on us doing better than that this year, and I'm sure much of it will be worth watching.

BCFC's view is an interesting one - for information, in our three home games, we've played three of teams who finished in the top six or seven last year, but have been hit by injuries in the centre-half department that have made it difficult to compete with the highest Clubs who have all made unbeaten starts. Players have been drafted into different positions, and - as Preecey has said - it will be worth looking at if things dont work out when players are back from injury.

[jeremypitt]

Have none of the teams we've played against suffered any player loss due to injury or suspension?

[ab]

In my judgement, not to the same extent. Hinckley, Hyde and Harrogate each had a striker suspended. We've conceded at least four from set pieces.

[suv]

OK point taken on " supporters having no influence" & "keep coming back for more" ( I know I will)!!
however on the question " why there's been such a major falling off of numbers" the same still applies
win some football matches and people would still be watching.

[suv]

ab said:

Cant disagree that winning football matches will help, and the simplicity of the argument, Suv.

But to be honest, our form - on a like for like basis, isnt that much different from last year.

We lost to Hyde and drew with Harrogate, but it was the reverse results last year. I accept that we beat Kettering last year. Drew at Hinckley last year, but won there this year. That's one point difference in four.

Hard to compare Telford and Burscough away, 'cos I'm not sure who they are replacing, but we lost at Scarborough, Droylsden and Farsley. The three points at Lancaster were pretty meaningless 'cos everyone took six points off them. So, maybe if Scarborogh are Telford, and Burscough are Worksop, we are three points down on last year.

If Tamworth are Droylsden or Farsley, a draw would be better than last year.

Leigh and Solihull are two big upcoming home games - took nothing off either last year, and hopefully the injury situation will have recovered by the time we go into them. A win against either will put us at least where we were in equivalent games last year, and anything extra will put us ahead. Then we have Alfreton away, where we did win last year.

Off the next four games, we took three points last year. I would stake quite a lot on us doing better than that this year, and I'm sure much of it will be worth watching.

BCFC's view is an interesting one - for information, in our three home games, we've played three of teams who finished in the top six or seven last year, but have been hit by injuries in the centre-half department that have made it difficult to compete with the highest Clubs who have all made unbeaten starts. Players have been drafted into different positions, and - as Preecey has said - it will be worth looking at if things dont work out when players are back from injury.

All fine and well (last year/this year) however we finished outside the top 5 last year and the start we've made this year is no better

[jeremypitt]

ab said:

In my judgement, not to the same extent. Hinckley, Hyde and Harrogate each had a striker suspended. We've conceded at least four from set pieces.

I guess this raises another question over why year after year Worcester City FC have so many injuries. John Barton would always bemoan the fact that injuries hampered him so much. Last season at the start we had the same high injury count. So are we simply the unluckiest team in football?
Disclaimer for the benefit of Colin - this is not a negative criticism, just a consideration which may be debated and discussed openly without judgement.

[bcfcfan]

cg wrote ...

I know for a fact Norwich City phone their wavering supporters up and conduct all kinds of customer research then shape pricing policy and other requirements around that. Result: sell outs for the home section of most games at Carrow Road in the 2000s.

A club like WCFC doesn't have the resources to do this - so asking around is the next best option

.........................................................................................................

How about putting something in the local press asking for views on the club or on it's website. I know Worcester has (very) limited resources but surely they could do this.

[jeremypitt]

The thing about any sort of Voxpop is that its always a win-win, as anyone involved inmarketing will tell you. If you do the old voxpop, and there are good ideas, then you can implement them, if they work everyones happy, if they don't, well it wasn't your idea in the first place, you did your bit for the people but unfortunately it didnt work!!! either way the people feel that they've been listened to and feel in someway engaged with the situation. Also of course, if you don't like what you hear, you can always just ignore it, the people will soon get over that, and at least feel satisfied that they have at least been asked!!!!

[cg]

Well said bcfc - asking fans / prospective fsupporters / residents would be a start wouldn't it? And welcome to SGL by the way.

Its a pity when I held my 'Matchday' book launch two years ago that no WCFC directors ,other than DB briefly, could be bothered to speak to Neil Doncaster, the CEO at Norwich City and the main figurehead behind their successful drive to keep supporters coming back game after game, season after season (who was featured in the book) how Norwich have managed to do it.

AB/Suv: the Norwich research shows that fans don't rate watching a winning side as high up their priority list as is often thought. Doncaster's paper: 'Winning isn't everything' makes compelling reading. Safety, comfort, price, catering, parking are all key criteria. The relationship with the club is also vital.

Gates at SGL have been down from the start v Hyde - so I don't just think it is just lack of success that has seen crowds dip this season.

I spend much of my work career looking at these sort of issues. The only time I have been asked to advise the club was on media relations last season a week before the Morrison 'cancer' outburst - when my advice was merrily ignored and, IMO, disasterously handled. I wonder how many of the stayaways were offended and haven't returned? I didn't venture down The Lane for the rest of the season and TAFKAB has indicated he know further fans who did likewise.

There's a lot of work to be done - and it is a shame the Trust folded (someone said 'would we want to have experienced what Telford have been through' - from seeing how their fans trust has run things in the past three seasons - yes!).

I'm not saying this is the answer - but I really think it is a time to stop bickering and for everyone to pull together...and that means suggestions and dialogue and drumming up ideas that can be taken forward - and for the board of directors to listen and act on them.

The biggest thing that can help AP and the players is for as many fans to get down the Lane as possible and make it a fortress.

But it needs proactive thinking. If that means letting under 10s in for free fine (their paying parents will follow). If that means employing audible (younger?) PA announcers do it. If that means a more vibrant social club, even choc bars sold in the Brookside tea bar - lets get it done - and start ticking the boxes that keep fans coming back!!!

BCFC : How different is St Andrews when Blues lower their prices?

Its time to think outside the box (and that doesn't mean the penalty area).

[Oogly Boogly]

oldbutnew said:

Very well said, Mr Layland!

The predecessor of this messageboard was so ridiculously negative that it must have put many people off. The fact that the assistant Manager was forced to use the press to defend the players from the comments on that messageboard says it all.

Although this current messageboard is far better it can still give the wrongful impression that supporting City is a painful thing to do. Yet anyone who attended the match on Saturday must surely have been impressed by the efforts of the team in the 2nd half - and they were quite rightly applauded from the pitch by all.

It was drama & entertainment worth ?10 of anyone's money.

Yes well said Mr Leyland if people are going to just moan like him then they should shut up and f**k off. They ain't proper fans as the proper fans support the club and the manager dont they?

[voiceofreason]

Some sensible suggestions on here;DB & Co. take note?

One point re AM, regardless of his comments, IMO there were enough bad-minders on here to exacerbate what he said which didn't help matters, maybe myself!

Like to think of myself though as just an old cynic who will always support the club;Though not as actively as I'd like. Have utmost respect for those who do.

[bcfcfan]

cg said:

BCFC : How different is St Andrews when Blues lower their prices?

Its time to think outside the box (and that doesn't mean the penalty area).

For the 1st home game of the season we had 24000, the ground holds 30000. Sunderland nearly sold out their end as well so there were probably about 21000 blues fans. This game was £25. Bolton in a couple of weeks in £15 and will probably be sold out.

Of course, we charge really stupid prices for the big games, Man Utd, Villa, Liverpool etc (£40 for the Man U game) and we will probably sell out for that one although I refuse to pay that.

We sometimes do "kids for a quid" and that makes a lot of noise as the kids will generally shout and scream more than adults. I've heard a lot of people moan about it but how else are you going to get youngsters supporting the team. It also brings in more matchday income from food sales, programmes and the club shop

I know WCFC are on a much smaller scale but as already has been said, they need to find ways of bringing the younger supports in (Free tickets to local schools in the seating area?)

By the way, winning doesn't always bring in thr crowds. Last season we (Blues) came runners up and a lot of times we were only getting 23/24000 a game. Why? Because prices were too high and the football being played was crap.














[/quote]

[Deleted]

"Against Huddersfield i had a guy wearing a rugby top ask me at half time where the toilets were .... "same place as last week" was my reply"

I'm glad no one said that to me when I went to my first game at SGL. If they had WCFC wouldn't have seen me again - and as a result would have lost 45+ years gate money and support. Shouldn't we be welcoming new faces?

I've found it difficult to contribute to this thread for a number of reasons. The main one being that I've often driven back from games over the last couple of years (both home and away) questioning my sanity. Sterile performances coupled with bad results will inevitably lead to lower gates.

Alarm bells have to ring loud and clear when the likes of Brooksider and Dave Shedster (to name but two) turn away from the club. These aren't floating fans - they're core support.

Another worry I have re attendances is the lack of kids at games. A few are there, relucantly, with their dads, but where are tomorrow's fans? The average age of the support rises each year, and dare I suggest one factor in the falling gates is sheer mortality.

These issues need debating and addressing, or there won't be a need for a new ground.