CONGRATULATIONS GAFFER!

[Tim Munslow]

I notice on the City website that Andy Preece has just been awarded his League Managers Association Certificate in Applied Management. It would be easy to gloss over this in favour of more ostensibly exciting news, but to me it says dedication and professionalism, just what we want to see in a manager.

Also, looking at it from a selfish club point of view what excellent contacts he must have made amongst his fellow candidates, who were Paul Hart (Portsmouth), Lee Richardson (Chesterfield), Darren Ferguson(Peterbrough United), Steve Thompson (Yeovil Town), David Oldfield (Stafford Rangers), Alan Irvine (Everton), Stuart McCall (Bradford City), Chris Ramsey( Tottenham Hotspur), Joe Joyce (Newcastle United), Chris Beech (Bury), Paul Davis (PFA), Ian Woan, Barry Hunter, Jason Withe, Peter Shirtliff, Steve Hodge and Les Ferdinand.

Well done Andy Preece!

[andy]

Agreed, Tim. Well done, Andy, and congragulations.

[Tony is not to despondent now.]

But won't this qualification make it easier for him to get another position and leave the City? I hear he is applying for all the jobs in football that are going.

[tim]

Good luck to him, sure as eggs are eggs he ain't the messiah.

[B*ue dragonstander]

I agree. It would be nonsensical to assume that he wasn't looking for a better job in football than manager of City. One day he will get one.

[Oogly Boogly]

timmunslow said:

I notice on the City website that Andy Preece has just been awarded his League Managers association Certificate in Applied Management. It would be easy to gloss over this in favour of more ostensibly exciting news, but to me it says dedication and professionalism, just what we want to see in a manager.

Also, looking at it from a selfish club point of view what excellent contacts he must have made amongst his fellow candidates, who were Paul Hart (Portsmouth), Lee Richardson (Chesterfield), Darren Ferguson(Peterbrough United), Steve Thompson (Yeovil Town), David Oldfield (Stafford Rangers), Alan Irvine (Everton), Stuart McCall (Bradford City), Chris Ramsey( Tottenham Hotspur), Joe Joyce (Newcastle United), Chris Beech (Bury), Paul Davis (PFA), Ian Woan, Barry Hunter, Jason Withe, Peter Shirtliff, Steve Hodge and Les Ferdinand.

Well done Andy Preece!

I think its pretty sad that now you have to have a certificate to be considered a football manager. Nobby Clark never had a certificate. Bill Shankly never had a certificate. Alex Fergusson never had a certificate. But it does look better on the CV than 3 years at a non-league club doing bugger all.

[dorothy]

It's all about personal development. I'd rather have a manager who is looking to develop his own skills and probably move on to a bigger club than one prepared to stagnate in the lower reaches of English football with no money, and no prospect of money to spend. I just hope he stays long enough to lift us to the heady hights of the real Blue Square League.

[Oogly Boogly]

I like a manager who develops his management skills on the job and gives us the success we all crave. I believe one area of these courses is all about 'media skills' which shows that football management is becoming less and less about coaching abilities. My preference would be a manager who is prepared to stagnate in the lower reaches of English football and doesn't have an ambition to manage Manchester City. The problem is dorothy that at our level of football the requirements are so different to at the top level. Operating at minimal budget and not complaining about the lack of money is part of the job. And I doubt they teach them much about the wheeling and dealing at Warwick

[wakefield]

'....Teach them much........at Warwick...' er, yes they do.

AP has stepped up in his career. He will be off soon.

[dorothy]

Operating on a minimal budget is not only part of the game at our level but for many clubs way above us. That doesn't mean that a manager has to accept that the situation will not change or seek to change it for himself.
As to ambition, it's a poor man who does not seek to improve himself.
The best managers I've ever worked for have been those who are prepared to listen and learn from those around them, above and below, but have also sought out additional knowledge of their field, in AP's case he obviously believes that there was additional knowledge to be gained at Warwick University. Who are we to question that decision.
As for wheeling and dealing, it was probably not on the sylabus but, given those on the course alongside him, I would find it hard to believe that AP didn't pick up some helpful hints along the way.

[Tim Munslow]

Oogly Boogly wrote

"I think its pretty sad that now you have to have a certificate to be considered a football manager."

I suggest Oogly Boogly, Brooksider, Jeremy Pitt or whatever your name is, you go and get a job as a fireman - there you will get paid for pouring cold water over everything. Doing a four-year course at anything takes determination and application. Nobody said you had to have a qualification. I just think it's worthy of congratulations that AP sought to better himself, and in turn I hope the club, by doing this.

[DrAgony]

timmunslow said:

Oogly Boogly wrote

"I think its pretty sad that now you have to have a certificate to be considered a football manager."

I suggest Oogly Boogly, Brooksider, Jeremy Pitt or whatever your name is, you go and get a job as a fireman - there you will get paid for pouring cold water over everything. Doing a four-year course at anything takes determination and application. Nobody said you had to have a qualification. I just think it's worthy of congratulations that AP sought to better himself, and in turn I hope the club, by doing this.

I agree with every word of your post, Tim. Beats me how anyone can see anything remotely negative in gaining such a qualification.

Well done, AP - I look forward to witnessing the fruits of your efforts!

[jeremypitt]

Exactly - Congratulations to Andy Preece!!!!!!

Mr Tim Munslow - you can expect to receive a PM once I've given your post due consideration, its been copied just in case it gets deleted.

[Oogly Boogly]

timmunslow said:

Oogly Boogly wrote

"I think its pretty sad that now you have to have a certificate to be considered a football manager."

I suggest Oogly Boogly, Brooksider, Jeremy Pitt or whatever your name is, you go and get a job as a fireman - there you will get paid for pouring cold water over everything. Doing a four-year course at anything takes determination and application. Nobody said you had to have a qualification. I just think it's worthy of congratulations that AP sought to better himself, and in turn I hope the club, by doing this.

Where shall I start as I imagine this goon wants some kind of response.
Firstly to be considered to be Brooksider could almost be seen as an honour however you've completely got hold of the wrong end of the stick A stick you've only got hold of to try and beat me up for some reason (you obviously missed the real negative comments in the posts by other people or was that deliberate or cynical?)
If you actually take the trouble to read what I posted you will see no negative remarks about Preecey at all as I'm a big fan of Preecey as a manager. I don't know him at all but I'm very glad if not a bit surprised that he is at City and am confident he 'll do a good job. I'm not critival of Preecey making a decision to do a management course as I've done plenty myself (its only a ONE year course, I doubt anyone certainly not an intelligent guy like Preecey would consider the return on a FOUR year football management course worth ther trouble). My criticism is about the way Universities and Colleges keep creating courses almost for the hell of it. There is little difference between football management and any other kind of man management, yet Warwick have seen an opportunity for funding by running such a course just for football managers.

There was a time that every decent hack did his apprenticeship starting as a goafer or teaboy at the local rag before making his way up through the ranks, before 'media studies' courses were invented, now a 'media studies' course has become devalued. Again there is nothing negative in anyone gaining the qualification yet the qualification itself has limited currency. Preecey knows from experience (and dont forget he is an experienced football manager already) that when he gets an interview his success will be based on his teams success with the only currency being league positions, promotions, relegations etc. He will also know very well that football has been and always will be very much about who you know and during his years at Stockport, Crystal Palace, Bury, Carlisle he has already had many years of good networking. Enough to get him a very good reputation in the North West.
So Munslow, why single out my post and consider it negative? How about this lot for negative postings?

But won't this qualification make it easier for him to get another position and leave the City? I hear he is applying for all the jobs in football that are going.

immediately followed by this post from a moderator

Good luck to him, sure as eggs are eggs he ain't the messiah.

and how about

AP has stepped up in his career. He will be off soon.

These I think show Preecey in a very negative light suggesting that he's done this purely for his own self gratification and with no regard for his employer. And to suggest he's 'applying for all the jobs in football that are going' shows little support at all for our manager, no understanding of what the course is really all about and really is s*** stirring of the highest order. But Munslow you don't seem bothered by these remarks.

You say this shows dedication and professionalsim and these comments are the ones that suggest otherwise and they certainly are not mine. I happen to think that Andy Preece IS a dedicated and professional person and a proven successful football manager as well, and there are plenty of people within the game who already know this. He is no novice despite his age. I also think that Preecey also knows that any certificate is meaningless without showing more success and that his priority before climbing the ladder is success at City. Only then will he be able to achieve his ambitions. Ambitions which I personally hope he gets the opportunity to achieve.

I do wonder what the great football managers past and present would make of it. Cloughies 'degrees' were his league and cup winners medals, Mourinho learnt everything he knows through apprenticeships under great managers such as Bobby Robson. Good managers already possess the intelligence to understand how to motivate and manipulate such as Ferguson and Wenger and Curbishley and Dario Gradi. You also have to consider what this course is really all about. It appears to be designed NOT to enhance your management career prospects but to AVOID getting the sack, to keep you in the job longer. That is the basis of Sue Bridgewaters research. The idea being that Managers should be better prepared for the instability of the modern game
As Manchester City Manager Stuart Pearce put it: on completing the Warwick Business School Certificate in Football Management "I appreciate that the most important thing is to get good results, but to me the bottom line is the more education you can give yourself, and the more preparation you can do, the less chance of failing. That's my philosophy." Ouch.

So Munslow if you want to spend your retirement looking for negative comments in postings thats fine but get off your scrawny ass and tell it to the people who question Preeceys dedication to the cause, not people who simply question the requirement in a particular course. Just stick to the facts instead of trying to create noise that isn't there.

I'd congratulate anyone who passed their degree in Disney (yes there really is a Mickey Mouse degree) but that doesnt stop me from questioning that degrees value.

I'm 100% behind Andy Preece. I may be wrong in my belief that he will deliver the goods, but I'm still backing him all the way, certificate or no certificate.

[Tim Munslow]

Well that seemed to start a bit of a storm! Obviously Oogly Boogly took exception to my comments. Still - you can't please all of the people all of the time.

[Oogly Boogly]

No not at all Tim, if you don't agree with a comment then you do the right thing by arguing your point, but disagreeing with a comment that I didnt even make, (that is, a negative comment about Andy Preece), just shows a lack of understand or a cynical attempt to have a go at me, although reading your posting again it seems you really wanted to have a go at Brooksider who didnt even write it, so you just picked the wrong comment and wrong poster, thats all. I just found your crass myopic selectability when it came to 'negative comments' a bit much. You chose the wrong 'negative comments' there, Give webtony a bit of your unbelievably sharp wit with a fireman comment if you want to. I hope you find it just as annoying to see so called supporters accusing our manager of applying for 'all the jobs going' don't you?
We need to get behind Preecey and give him and the team all the support they deserve, don't we?

[Tim Munslow]

From the verbose style and general negativity I am afraid I jumped to wrong conclusions, even if my comments were, I believe, justified. At least we are agreed that we need to get behind AP and the team.

Up the City!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oogly Boogly]

Give up on this negativity lark, as I said, do you not find webbtony's comments far more negative?

[Tim Munslow]

I think we'll just have to agree to differ on this one; I bear no grudges. If you make yourself known to me at a home game I'll even buy you a pint. I'll be stood in the NO SMOKING area (yippee) in front of Zone D of the stand.

[andy]

Can we clarify just what negativity is?

Does it include saying that Troy Wood and Andy Preece shouldnt be considered as part of the squad as they add nothing to it, that Ryan Clarke lacks commitment to Worcester, that our squad is worst than most, or that I am a t**t and dont have a life (compared with some others who clearly do?).

Or is it just that I get the wrong karma?

[Oogly Boogly]

no they're just opinions and if someone wishes to say otherwise thats called debate and football is probably the keenest debated subject on the planet.
Negativity is playing 5 in defence at home against a bottom of the table team or moaning that its too hot in summer.

And anyway andy a correction, Ryan Clarke lacks commitment to Alfreton, not to Worcester, get it right. I stick with my opinions

[andy]

Jun 28, 2007, 11:07am, blue dragonstander wrote:Ryan who? Lets move on and do a deal for someone we can sign.

"I agree with Mr Blue Dragon. Lets concentrate on signing players who can show commitment to the club."

Must have misunderstood.

[Oogly Boogly]

I think you got the wrong end of the stick there Andy. I doubt that Alfreton would have felt that saying he's 'adamant' about leaving the club shows great personal commitment even though he'll be playing there next season now. Maybe after a year with City he gets a better carrot dangled at him and is adamant of leaving again?

is what I said to correct you andy, my concern was not that he wasn't committed to joining City, but that after maybe a year and a bigger carrot he'd show the kind of commitment he showed to Alfreton by saying he was adamant he was leaving, then doing a u-turn and asking to be taken back. We'd probably be asking ourselves, like the Alfreton fans will ask themselves 'is he really committed to the club?'

To which you replied

I always seem to get the wrong end of the stick, OB. Not a problem, though, as I can see why I do.

Spending too much of my time in Germany seems to mean I don't translate too well on the web I think.

[darrellbutler]

I make it 3-1 to Munslow.

[B*ue dragonstander]

andy said:

Can we clarify just what negativity is?

Does it include saying that Troy Wood and Andy Preece shouldnt be considered as part of the squad as they add nothing to it, that Ryan Clarke lacks commitment to Worcester, that our squad is worst than most, or that I am a t**t and dont have a life (compared with some others who clearly do?).

Or is it just that I get the wrong karma?

Hours of fun working out the most apt replacement for the two **'s

Answers on a postcard to E Powell - Singleton, Blue Peter, BBC Television Centre, St George's Wood Lane, Reddicth, Barrow in Furness, Cumbria, W4 N**r

A prize of an original 1972-73 season City home programme (in good condition) is on offer for the most amusing or original entry posted on this message board before 1.00pm on Friday

[andy]

Thanks a million, BDS!

[B*ue dragonstander]

Happy to help ;-)

It is the silly season after all

[dave]

I will go for A and R. (Tart)

[Bstander]

How about "ou"

[B*ue dragonstander]

Good start
Yours
Val

PS Anyone remember Bengo?