End of season clear-out required ?

[alwaysnextyear]

After a season of by and large inconsistent mediocrity, it is surely now time to discuss the very tough decisions needed to revamp the team for next season. It is obvious that in what this year was a division with no outstanding teams, that we just weren't good enough on a week to week basis. 9th is probably about where we deserved to be, but is this good enough ?
After hearing throughout the season of budget limitations ( how do less well supported clubs cope ? ) , surely the only way to get new players in is to try and ship out those players who one would reasonably suspect of being the high earners and who have underachieved, and by giving younger ( and no doubt cheaper ) players a chance. Why have Coates, Khan, Walker,Watkins, Wood and Findlay on the books if they only play now and again ?
To free up funds for new signings , I'd say thanks but goodbye to

Des Lyttle - sadly Father Time caught up with him last year
Andy Preece - now to be manager only - forget the player part of his wages if any

and try to get transfer fees ( more in hope than anticipation ) for Burley, Cornes and Webster.

Harsh or are there any more ?

[Mark]

Harsh.

I don't think Des is finished. He has another season in him I believe.

Adam Burley improved as the season went on and turned out to be pretty much as good as Andy Preece said he was.

Chris Cornes - No thanks

Webby was playing catch up when his season eventually started, having missed most of it through injury.

[leighbaker]

mark said:

Harsh.

I don't think Des is finished. He has another season in him I believe.

Adam Burley improved as the season went on and turned out to be pretty much as good as Andy Preece said he was.

Chris Cornes - No thanks

Webby was playing catch up when his season eventually started, having missed most of it through injury.

I Agree with that, Burley has improved this season, Webby has just came back fully this season from his injury.
Des, im not quite sure with how games he will play next season as we have Gill from Bromsgrove.

[wh]

I think we have to see who we are left with, we have a good squad who most teams will have been looking at with envious eyes.

You would expect that wherever Jock ends up he may put a good word in for the odd player.

The longer we tread water, the greater the chance of people either being poached or wanting out.

I really think next season is the make or break one, Preecey, Smudger and a few others have contracts until the end of it.

[jp]

Adam Burley looked every inch a good full back, in the Jock McGrath mode. So long as he's not expected to suddenly morph into a wing back, he'll be a very useful member of the team. Des and Preecey are both now playing on memories, and are no longer capable of full seasons at this level. I think there will be a clear out of younger players, I can't see Troy Wood being there next season, just not made the impact when he's played, and the gulf between him and the established 3 forwards is large. I hope Nic Colley is still at the club, I do wonder if Cleggy will be there for another season, I hope he is though.
We won't get a fee for Cornes, he's gone and forgotten. Shabir Khan? I wonder whether he'll be around, he probably wants to be playing regular first team football at his age now, he's no youth player anymore, and sitting on the bench is no good for him.
I'd like to see two midfielders come in close season, one at least experienced enough to be able to put a foot on the ball and distribute.

[andy]

Personally, I would like to see at least three players come in and then there is the centre-half question.

Like jp says, two in midfield.

I think you have to go into a season with four strikers, and we currently have three.

We will need a replacement for JT. This is a tricky one for AP. Does he plan on JT coming back (around September) and/or can Danny Hodnett or Shabs step up to the mark for the whole season? Rapinder Gill is not a like-for-like replacement.

And then there is the not insignificant matter of the coach to be resolved.


Alwaysnext year hopes that Des, Burley and Webster go. Not sure whether you are being serious, but certainly very harsh if you are.

If Preecey can keep himself fit enough for the occasional appearance when needed, then thats a bonus.

[jp]

I think Andy Preece as a player is no longer a sensible move, remember he is now a 40 year old!! Burley and Webster are essential for next season. Yes, me, not the biggest Adam Burley fan still believes that he is essential for next season. Of course I long to see him in a 4-4-2 playing the Graham Selby role with a new Steve Crompton flavoured midfield player.

[andy]

There is also that key ingredient that you need whatever group of players you have. The hard facts of this season show that City have been bettered in league position by all four teams promoted into this league over the past two years - Workington, Farsley, Blyth and Hyde. Clearly, some have strengthened - eg Seddon into Hyde - but I should imagine that the core of those four teams still remain from their Unibond promotions. Successful teams tend to continue to be strong at the next level because of that key ingredient - I dont know what you call it, and I dont know how much of it City have.

Preeceys article in the WN news today is interesting. It is saying what JB also said - that a ground move is vital to chances.

As I see it, most fans know that the ground move is vital to the future of the football Club. It is vital in different ways. In one way, we all know it is vital because we know that the Club has a big loan which it is just about servicing, and that the Club may not survive if finances worsen. So, we know that the move is vital in the bigger picture of the Club actually existing.

What Preecey is saying is that the ground move is vital to league finishing position, and the main link he makes is to the playing budget. My interpretation of what Preecey is saying is that the 'squad' that the budget allows us to buy is not a squad expected to make the play-offs - unless the squad overachieves (as this year). It is a mid-range budget, and mid-table is the expectation.

It also points to a constraint that the Club cannot just go out and buy acquire players when it needs to (for example, in a Webster-type injury situation).

I'd like to understand this relationship more - how a Club's budget is linked to league position. It clearly isnt a simple equation, else Kettering would surely have done better than they have done.

[wh]

I think superburlo has finished the season off well, I would give Danny Hodnett a chance to fill in for JT.

[Deleted]

A very strange season in many ways. I've seen us play some of the best - and some of the worst football I've ever watched from City sides going back over 150ish years. I wonder if Cleggy will want to travel much longer? I hope he does, but we still need that extra presence in midfield.

[jp]

andy said:

There is also that key ingredient that you need whatever group of players you have. The hard facts of this season show that City have been bettered in league position by all four teams promoted into this league over the past two years - Workington, Farsley, Blyth and Hyde. Clearly, some have strengthened - eg Seddon into Hyde - but I should imagine that the core of those four teams still remain from their Unibond promotions. Successful teams tend to continue to be strong at the next level because of that key ingredient - I dont know what you call it, and I dont know how much of it City have.

Preeceys article in the WN news today is interesting. It is saying what JB also said - that a ground move is vital to chances.

As I see it, most fans know that the ground move is vital to the future of the football Club. It is vital in different ways. In one way, we all know it is vital because we know that the Club has a big loan which it is just about servicing, and that the Club may not survive if finances worsen. So, we know that the move is vital in the bigger picture of the Club actually existing.

What Preecey is saying is that the ground move is vital to league finishing position, and the main link he makes is to the playing budget. My interpretation of what Preecey is saying is that the 'squad' that the budget allows us to buy is not a squad expected to make the play-offs - unless the squad overachieves (as this year). It is a mid-range budget, and mid-table is the expectation.

It also points to a constraint that the Club cannot just go out and buy acquire players when it needs to (for example, in a Webster-type injury situation).

I'd like to understand this relationship more - how a Club's budget is linked to league position. It clearly isnt a simple equation, else Kettering would surely have done better than they have done.

I do worry a little bit when its the manager of the football team who is making comments about how vital the ground move is. I would hope that this would be the role of Directors to be doing the PR in this area, and for Preecey to simply concentrate on managing his own resources.
Interesting point you make andy about how teams coming up seem to have done better than stagnating teams like Worcester. There's certainly a lot to be said about having a consistent team nucleus, which gets to know each others games, and the whole team is in fact stronger than the individual parts. I was at Aggborough yesterday watching Wychbold win the League Cup 3-0, and looking at the team, I see players who have been with the club 6 or 7 years, who's games have improved with the introduction of just one or two new players. As a team, they know their roles and everyone elses role, and are therefore more relaxed on the ball. I see it with teams visiting SGL at times, not the greatest teams, but teams who've built a solid foundation of players, and play to a set system week in week out, who never make changes based on the opposition, but play to their own strengths.
I also think that Preecey should realise that whatever the player budget, it will never be enough, thats a fact of life in non-league football apart from a very few clubs who throw money at players, like Hornchurch, Sittingbourne and Grantham, and where are they all now??? As a club we've got to be looking to develop as many players as we can, not the few that choose to opt for a "sports science" course at Worcester Tech College. I know I've gone on about it before, but going back to yesterday, there were three finals at Aggborough U14, U16, and U18 - all good quality teams and the football was superb in the games I watched. There were a number of scouts from various local teams, so I went away with a few telephone numbers and contacts for next season. Anyone from WCFC make the short journey up the A449? nope!

[andy]

I dont think the team has stagnated, Jem. I believe that, as a whole, it is better now than it was 2 years ago.

I think it will take an exceptional Worcester team to win the CN next season, or a good Worcester team that performs exceptionally well over the whole season.

We've got to improve more than four other teams merely to get into the fifth spot. Plus, I expect Burscough, Altrincham and Witton/Telford etc to be up there pushing for play-off places while Lancaster, Worksop and Scarborough clearly werent. So, it will be a tough ask.

[gobby cow]

I think Des is getting to be a liability, it is time to let the youngsters have a chance. AP has two fine players in Danny Hodnett and Shabir, I am convinced they can hold their own in this league and should be given the chance to prove it. On their outings this season both have done City proud.

Adam Burley has improved this season, at first I thought he was yet another one of APs losers, but he has got better.

I havent seen much of Webby as I cant get to the monday matches, but he has been quiet for him. I do wonder if Danksy is mature enough to let Webby go. He acts like a spoilt brat. Craig has been great, he was a bit sulky at first but he is tenacious, and delightful when I collared him at Paul Carty's testimonial.

I do have my doubts about James Coates, I have only seen him play at the testimonial this season and he was shocking!

[andy]

Different viewpoints are what this MB is all about. In my opinion, Danks has done really well to cool his volatility over the second-half of the season. Clearly, ill-discipline was costing him suspensions at the end of last season and the beginning of this. But he has picked up just five yellows in the past 30 games. He is now combining a sharp cutting edge (his running at defenders is very incisive) with a more controlled approach to the inevitable chop-down tackles that he faces. I hope he can carry that attitude forward, because of his high value to the team.

[jp]

I think the team has been stagnating over the last 15 years, no movement in the waters of the WCFC pool. Life on Mars syndrome!! Sometimes I think the club is caught between two stools and has the wrost of both worlds, on the one hand it wants to be a player in the big money, big player deals, but too often comes off second best (with the Jai Stanleys, Mark Tuckers etc.) When it comes to player development, we're at the mercy of the Tech College in some respects.
I'd love to see us do what Harriers and Bromsgrove did when they had success, and you looked at their teams where they could boast players who'd been at the club for 6 or more seasons. Maybe that just doesnt happen anymore.

[jp]

andy said:

Different viewpoints are what this MB is all about. In my opinion, Danks has done really well to cool his volatility over the second-half of the season. Clearly, ill-discipline was costing him suspensions at the end of last season and the beginning of this. But he has picked up just five yellows in the past 30 games. He is now combining a sharp cutting edge (his running at defenders is very incisive) with a more controlled approach to the inevitable chop-down tackles that he faces. I hope he can carry that attitude forward, because of his high value to the team.

Yes andy, agree about Danksy (is this a first? we agree on so much these days!!!) He now appears to accept he's going to be hacked down, and takes the free-kick as a positive. He's running at defenders which is always going to pay dividends for him, and his goalpoaching is as good as ever.

[andy]

we agree on so much these days!!!

I dont agree with that, Brookie ! ;-)

[tim]

I've been really impressed with Danks lately. He does seem to have added a new maturity to his game in recent weeks, the retaliation lesson seems to have been learned, and he is a much more dangerous prospect for defenders to face as a result. Whereas they knew all they had to do was give him some needle or a whack before, now it seems he's prepared to hurt them by running at them with the ball rather than with fists.

[jp]

andy said:

we agree on so much these days!!!

I dont agree with that, Brookie ! ;-)

Brookie??? who's that?

[Deleted]

There used to be a retained list announced - will that be the same and if so when?

[sleepinggiant]

I believe the players are being told on Thursday as to whether they are required for next season.

[StopfordianWCFC]

Like most of the others who have expressed an opinion I think we need.....

2 good central midfielders;
A centre back (unless JT is a cert to return);
Another striker.

Midfield has been our weakness now for 2 or 3 seasons. This year we were not helped by playing a system that resulted in just 3 midfielders rather than the 5 it was designed for, but I still don't think a midifled based on Colley, Tom W & Cleggy will win anything for us.

If I had to say goodbye to any players I guess it would be NC, Troy, Walker, Bulmer and dare I say it, Shabby. The last four because whilst they are all decent players they don't seem able to force their way past the more established players (Shab looks class at times, but why does he never get a game, and why is he always injured?). The former because great worker that he is, I don't think that NC is good enough at any one thing to have a real role in a title winning side. If its running about snapping at players in midfield I would take little Tom.

Its all about opinions though... and those were mine.

[tim]

Half a side, that's what we need, if you ask me. At least one high quality central defender, a right back who can play in a flat 4 or as a wing back (Ward must play in his best position, which is central midfield), a midfield ballwinner, an out and out wide man who can come on when the shape changes during games, maybe when we are chasing the game, and another striker to keep the pressure on Danks and Wilding. It's no use Preece throwing everyone forward at the end of games, as he does when we are losing, if there is nobody to deliver quality into the box, and that is best done from wide angles, hence the need for a genuine winger. Colley used to be one, but as he's played more infield this season he's lost that extra yard you need as a winger. He's made a manful job of the new role but ultimately it's not suited to him.

My retained list?

Bye-bye to Chris Cornes (already gone effectively), Nick Colley, Dale Watkins, Troy Wood (prove me wrong at a lower level Troy) and probably Shabby, who could be a quality player if he would toughen up. Depending on who can be brought in, I would probably also release Tom Warmer and Nat Bulmer, who hasn't challenged for that wingback/right sided defender position, has he?

What do I know about it though?

[darrellbutler]

Faak All, the same as the rest of us

[andy]

The JT issue will undoubtedly pose a dilemma for AP. The US season finishes around the end of September, by which time City will have played nearly a third of their league games.

In my view, we cant afford a 'wait and see' gap-filler.

But a permanent signing might well mean there is no longer a place for JT.

[jp]

I think as supporters who watch a lot of non-league football, and many of us have played at various levels, and managed teams at various levels, we actually know more than that. Most of us recognise players who aren't up to scratch, and those players with quality. We can see players struggling to play in certain positions. Its no coincidence that very often we agree with comments from those pundits who've played the game professionally, and even they disagree with each other from time to time. So I think our opinions are all just as valid. The only real difference is that we don't have the inside line on whats happening at the club, our opinios are only based on the various 90 minutes of football that we witness.

[DrAgony]

sleepinggiant said:

I believe the players are being told on Thursday as to whether they are required for next season.

Which may be true, I have no other information. But if it is true wouldn't it be a bit premature (as may be this thread) when we don't even know which league we are in next season yet - do we?

[tim]

With Halesowen missing out, there is now only one side who could force us south, King's Lynn, and they would much prefer to be in the south themselves should they get through the playoffs, the M11 makes their lives a lot easier to go south.

Safe money is on us staying north now I would think.

[andy]

With the possibility of Kettering not being promoted giving us a geographic saftey net if KL do indeed progress.

[Deleted]

Do people in Kings Lynn know the difference between north and south?