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Post by dave on Oct 22, 2008 14:28:08 GMT
I have heard a rumour about the Supporter's Trust that worries me as a member.
I have been told that the Trust had been offered an invite to attend Board meetings (not sure if it was a seat on the Board that was offered or just a "spectator" role), but the Trust Board had turned down this offer?
If this is true, I personally think that as representation on the Board of Directors of the football club was one of things the Trust were striving for, this is a bit of an own goal, and I am also concerned that Members of the Trust would not have not been informed of this offer nor given an opportunity to give their thoughts and opinions by voting on the proposal.
I am sure that this rumour must be untrue and just an attempt to undermine the Trust, so I am sure one of the Committee will clarify the position quickly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 14:35:59 GMT
From what I understand, this is typical of the total lack of understanding of the present Chairman. He seems to think that he can simply ask his chosen member of the Supporters Trust to be the representation at Board Level, without any kind of discussion within the ST.
Quite rightly, I believe the individual (not the Supporters Trust) declined the offer. Dave, if the Chairman asked you personally to join the Board as the Supporters Trust representative, would you consider that to be constitutional, or in any way the correct way to conduct business?? That is, unfortunately, the way the present chairman likes to conduct business.
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Post by gobby cow on Oct 22, 2008 14:45:13 GMT
I would take that rumour with a very large pinch of salt Dave, as with any other waffle that is coming from board sources.
The board will do anything to make the Trust look silly, in an effort to try and cover up for their own inabililty to fight their way out of a paper bag.
I dont bother listening to anything the board has to say any more, that way I cannot be disappointed or misinformed!
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Post by dave on Oct 22, 2008 14:49:33 GMT
I have to clarify that it was not a member of the Board that told me this, but another concerned supporters trust member who said his source was on the Trust Board. I was told that a vote had been taken and the Trust Board turned down the offer.
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Post by dave on Oct 22, 2008 15:09:16 GMT
From what I understand, this is typical of the total lack of understanding of the present Chairman. He seems to think that he can simply ask his chosen member of the Supporters Trust to be the representation at Board Level, without any kind of discussion within the ST. Quite rightly, I believe the individual (not the Supporters Trust) declined the offer. Dave, if the Chairman asked you personally to join the Board as the Supporters Trust representative, would you consider that to be constitutional, or in any way the correct way to conduct business?? That is, unfortunately, the way the present chairman likes to conduct business. No Jem, but I might have done if I was the Chairman of the Supporters Trust Board who had been unaminously voted at a Trust Board meeting to be the Trust's representative in the event that such an offer was made. Of course before taking any decision of this magnitude for the Trust, I would also inform all members and ballot them on the proposal before proceeding. Perhaps this is what is going on, the offer has been turned down in the interim whilst the Trust Board consult Trust Members over whether to accept a place at the Boardroom table? All I want is a bit of clarity thats all, I am not criticising anyone. |
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Post by creaner on Oct 22, 2008 15:21:08 GMT
It was made clear at the Trust AGM that any Trust representation on the Board would be decided by the Trust membership and voted on by the Trust membership. That is the democratic way to do things. The Trust has not been invited to attend any Board meetings, the rumour you heard was down to the Board asking an individual to attend- not via the Trust.
Any requests for meetings with the Board to hear thier views will be seriously considered as we have many questions we would like answers to.
It would be premature in my view to join any Board until we know the precise details surrounding the state of the Club.
The Trust has never taken sides in this whole affair, although I know the perception is different, and we will strive to be a credible independant voice for the supporters whoever is in charge!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2008 15:36:15 GMT
Thanks Creaner for making this clear
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camper
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Post by camper on Oct 22, 2008 17:39:05 GMT
Dave, I would like to clarify this situation. As a board we agreed some time ago now that we would invite a member of the trust on to the Board of WCFC. With this in mind I was asked to approach a member of your committee (Colin Layland). I asked him directly who was it from the Trust that would take up a position on the Board of Directors if and when they were invited to do so. He informed me that the committee had selected him as the person to take up this opportunity. I formally told him that he would be invited to join the Board of Directors of WCFC at the very next Board Meeting. The meeting in question was held on 16th October prior to this Colin was informed of the date and time. It was I believe at this juncture that he declined the invitation stating that the committee of the Trust could not support this move at this time. These are the facts as I know them and I am sure that Colin can confirm this.
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Post by dave on Oct 22, 2008 20:01:25 GMT
Thanks Rob and Camper for those two posts.
The Trust Board minutes from 3rd September 2008 suggest to me that a vote was taken and this named Colin as the man to take up a seat on the Board if it was offered in the short term. As Chairman of the Trust Board it would appear that he was recently approached by a representative from the Board of Directors and asked who would take up a seat for the Trust if offered and was told that it would be him, so he got asked to go to a Board meeting.
There has obviously been some breakdown in communication or misunderstanding over whether Colin was asked as an individual or as the nominated member of WCFCST. It would appear from Tony Partridge's post that the intention was to invite him as the Trust representative.
In which case I think it is right that ALL Trust members are given a say in this via a vote at the earliest opportunity, because from where I am sitting the Trust has been offered what I thought it was looking for, representation at Boardroom level within WCFC.
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BDS
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Post by BDS on Oct 22, 2008 21:59:49 GMT
if the Trust has misgivings over the conduct of the current board, and it should have, the Trust should insist that they could only take a seat after a General Meeting of the members has been held and the constitution of the post meeting Board known.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 11:53:33 GMT
It is now abundantly clear that the Board of Directors would like a member of the Supporters Trust to join them at the Boardroom table and bds I agree that the Trust needs to decide what it wants to do about the offer of a place on the Board and as soon as possible (whether this is a yes or a no to the offer)
So can I ask the members of the Trust Board who use this forum to confirm that a meeting will be called of all Trust members in the near future to debate the offer and take a vote on the issue on a one member one vote basis, with proxy and postal voting available for those that cannot attend the meeting?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 12:05:46 GMT
I'm sure they will.
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 12:42:23 GMT
Having Trust representation on the Board of a football club is one of the aims of the Supporters Trust. This so the Trust can have a say in the direction the club is taking from a supporters point of view. It can't be just taking a position because one has just been offered and not being in a position to make a difference. Before anyone agrees to join the present Board there are quite a number of questions we would like answers to before we take up any offer. Remember that anyone taking on this role inherits the responsibilities, risks and liabilities that the remaining Board members have- this is not something we should do lightly
Until we are satisfied that joining the Board is the correct thing to do from the Trust point of view then we would be foolish in acting prematurely and not be acting in the best interests of the supporters.
Also, note the context in which this offer was made. We have seen the departure from the Board of Doc Sorensen, Celia Adams and Simon Williams in quick succession because of their unease at the remaining Board members direction for the club. We need to make sure that we know all relevant facts about what we are getting ourselves into before we act.
Hopefully the AGM/EGM will happen soon which will supply some of the answers and enable the Trust to make a measured and reasonable decision. In the meantime the Trust is, as we always have been, willing to listen to the views of the Board to help clarify the present status of the clubs debt and plans for the immediate future. Any constructive dialogue between the Trust and the Board can only be good news for all concerned.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 13:14:51 GMT
So if I am reading that right Rob, the Trust Board has decided not to consult the members and ballot them on whether or not to accept the offer that has been made?
I am not sure that is a very democratic approach. A full debate which ALL members can contribute to and then a free and fair voting process would appear more in line with the way the Trust was sold to me as a democratic and independant voice for the supporters.
I acknowledge that there are many issues that could lead to members deciding not to accept the offer, but I think members should be given the opportunity to decide themselves particularly such a big decision as this one is.
If the Trust is not going to be a fully democratic body, then perhaps I have made a mistake in getting involved.
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 13:34:31 GMT
So if I am reading that right Rob, the Trust Board has decided not to consult the members and ballot them on whether or not to accept the offer that has been made? I am not sure that is a very democratic approach. A full debate which ALL members can contribute to and then a free and fair voting process would appear more in line with the way the Trust was sold to me as a democratic and independant voice for the supporters. I acknowledge that there are many issues that could lead to members deciding not to accept the offer, but I think members should be given the opportunity to decide themselves particularly such a big decision as this one is. If the Trust is not going to be a fully democratic body, then perhaps I have made a mistake in getting involved. Dave, we had an election and elected a Trust Board. To suggest that the Trust is undemocratic is a bit disapppointing after all the effort that has been put in to get us where we are. If the Trust membership do not have faith in the judgement of its elected Board then what is the point of having one? Perhaps I'm the one who made the mistake getting involved. |
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 13:47:12 GMT
I am really disappointed too. I had believed that the Trust Board would have wanted ALL members of the Trust to have a voice when deciding something as big as this.
After a full debate it may be decided by Trust members that now is not the time to accept a seat on the Board of WCFC Ltd, but at least Trust Members will have taken this decision and not just the Trust Board who unless I had raised this issue, would probably not have even made members aware that the offer had been made in the first place.
The Trust Board were appointed democratically enough, but I still maintain that big decisions such as this should be taken by ALL members not just the 7 Trust Board members, otherwise the Trust is not as democratic as I hoped it would be.
I am not saying I support us going on the Board at this time or otherwise, I would just have wanted to hear the arguments for and against at a Trust meeting and then vote along with all other members on the proposal.
Instead what it looks like (and perceptions are important) is that the Trust Board are being secretive and taking decisions of great magnitude without consulting the membership.
If this is going to be the way it works, then I may as well return my membership card today.
Sorry Niels it looks like our meeting next Tuesday may be off.
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andyc
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Post by andyc on Oct 23, 2008 13:56:21 GMT
Steady on chaps!! Isn't this getting a little silly? The WCFC board members who look at this forum must be laughing their socks off!
Is this really the forum for discussing an issue that is clearly an internal Trust issue? This should be dealt with at the next Trust Member's meting, not debated in this artificial arena. The invitation has been extended - with strings attached or not - and is being considered by the Trust Board, who have been elected forthe purpose. When the Board are in a position to put it to the members no doubt they will. Dave, do you really expect the Trust Board to call a member's meeting each and every time it looks like a decision has to be made? Surely you understand the Board have ot look into it in detail so that they can put all relevant info to the members who can then make an INFORMED decision. Frankly, if I was invited onto WCFC's Board I would run a mile! As Creaner has righly pointed out, being a club director brings with it considerable responsibilities AND LIABILITIES. It is not something to be rushed - or pushed - into.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 14:01:57 GMT
When the Board of WCFC make an offer to the Trust which would see the Trust achieve one of its aims then yes, I think the membership should be consulted on whether to accept the offer or not. I repeat, I am undecided about whether or not the Trust should accept the offer, but I would like ALL members to have a say on this one due to the nature of the decision.
I was seeking assurances that this will happen (and I do not mean tomorrow!), but they are not forthcoming as yet and this is massively disappointing.
As for this being an inappropriate forum, I would like to know when the next Trust Members meeting is going to be because I have not had any written correspondence (which went to all members) since the AGM as far as I can recall.
Keeping members in the know and giving them a say in big decisions was my idea of democracy, but obviously not everyones.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 14:29:25 GMT
also as a P.S...
Given that the Trust Board themselves were apparently split when voting on the proposal, taking the issue to the Trust Members is the best way forward.
Perhaps I am getting my wires crossed somewhere and the intention of the Trust Board is to call a meeting in the (not too distant) future and put the proposition to Trust Members for a vote.
I am not expecting a meeting next week, I must add, just a commitment to inform all members of the offer put this issue to the general vote of the Trust Members before taking a final decision.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 17:54:20 GMT
Still no sign of an answer so I will press on with one last point/question for those in the know...
If the EGM happens and the Board of WCFC are replaced (presumably by Derek Jones and Co.), would the Trust accept a place on the new Board of WCFC? Surely the same risks about liability would exist, and therefore the same caution would be applied in deciding if to accept a place on the "New" Board?
Am I right in assuming that this decision would also be put to a vote of ALL Trust Members?
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camper
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Post by camper on Oct 23, 2008 18:02:48 GMT
I would ask the opposite question Dave, if after the AGM/EGM the present Board have not been replaced by the democratic process but have received the support of the shareholders, would that then be the catalst for the Trust to get behind the Democratically elected Board and strive to support WCFC with us or will they still stand off and wait for better times. I assure you gentlemen that it is now that we need to be working together for the the better of the club.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 18:11:34 GMT
In my view, whatever the result of the EGM/AGM, ALL Trust Members should debate and decide on any offer from any party to take up a seat on the Board.
I had thought that a voice in the Boardroom was what the Supporters Trust wanted, it is certainly what I was hoping the Trust could achieve. Now that has been offered I am unhappy that the prospect has been dismissed without Trust members even being informed that the offer was made!
If that is Supporters Trust democracy then the Supporters Trust is not for me.
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 18:18:49 GMT
Still no sign of an answer so I will press on with one last point/question for those in the know... If the EGM happens and the Board of WCFC are replaced (presumably by Derek Jones and Co.), would the Trust accept a place on the new Board of WCFC? Surely the same risks about liability would exist, and therefore the same caution would be applied in deciding if to accept a place on the "New" Board? Am I right in assuming that this decision would also be put to a vote of ALL Trust Members? Yes. |
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 18:21:23 GMT
I would ask the opposite question Dave, if after the AGM/EGM the present Board have not been replaced by the democratic process but have received the support of the shareholders, would that then be the catalst for the Trust to get behind the Democratically elected Board and strive to support WCFC with us or will they still stand off and wait for better times. I assure you gentlemen that it is now that we need to be working together for the the better of the club. Again, yes. |
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camper
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Post by camper on Oct 23, 2008 18:21:32 GMT
Dave I would urge you not to be too hasty, the Trust needs to be strong and needs every member that it can muster. You have to remember that it is still in it's infancy and there are certain to be growing pains at this early stage but I am sure that they will be overcome, so for the sake of WCFC hang around we all need you and many others like you.
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Post by dave on Oct 23, 2008 18:26:07 GMT
I appreciate what you are saying Tony, but it is difficult to have faith with the Trust Board when things are being kept from all members.
What about members who don't read this forum (the majority of Trust members I would wager) will they even know that an offer of a seat in the Boardroom was offered to the Trust?
An open, transparent, democratic Supporters Trust is what I signed up to and I hope it is what can be delivered, but for me the jury is very much still out.
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 18:28:13 GMT
I would ask the opposite question Dave, if after the AGM/EGM the present Board have not been replaced by the democratic process but have received the support of the shareholders, would that then be the catalst for the Trust to get behind the Democratically elected Board and strive to support WCFC with us or will they still stand off and wait for better times. I assure you gentlemen that it is now that we need to be working together for the the better of the club. Again, yes. |
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camper
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Post by camper on Oct 23, 2008 18:34:56 GMT
Sorry Creaner but your yes is a bit ambiguous, is it yes we will work with the board or is it yes we will stand off and wait.
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Post by creaner on Oct 23, 2008 19:16:18 GMT
Sorry Creaner but your yes is a bit ambiguous, is it yes we will work with the board or is it yes we will stand off and wait. Sorry, cooking tea whilst replying. Fajitas. The Trust will act on behalf of the supporters, whoever is in charge. That is our remit. After the agm/egm we will talk to who has carried the vote of the shareholders and act accordingly. This does not automatically backing the victors but listening to whatever they have to say. We have always tried to remain impartial even though the perception is somewhat different. We are newly formed and we have, and will no doubt again!, make mistakes but we are determined! We would like answers to the questions I mentioned previously, can you act on behalf of the Board in answering them? it is hard to make decisions in a vacuum without knowing the full story. A bit of transparency on some of the key issues would be illuminating for all... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 19:19:49 GMT
I hope one day there will be a ST member on a board at WCFC - but not this board. Why would the ST, or any sane person, get involved with a bunch who have all but wrecked this club? It's too late to try and help the Gang of Four - it's time to get rid of them.
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