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Post by wr4change on Oct 28, 2017 7:52:16 GMT
Football Supporters, support and watch their team when they Can, be it every week or when they Can, home or away.
When all is said and done in my opinion it's all down to watching a game of Football, preferably in the City of Worcester but if not in Kidderminster or Bromagrove.
I understand people being anti the Board, so if they have proof of wrong doing by Hampson & Co (whom I despise) then use this proof and do something about it, if not then why bother keep spouting accusations which clearly they can't prove?
There are far too many factions in this Club, it will never unite. The Trust have missed a major opportunity to build a ground swell of support to oppose the Board over the last two seasons. What has happened here is that the vast majority of supporters are sick to the back teeth with all the bickering and now see the Trust as not being a viable alternative "they are all as bad as each other" is a phrase I hear often.
For the Trust to Win over the supporters they need to stop being so argumentative, particularly with supporters and on such forums as this - if an individual doesn't agree with their point of view he shouldn't be shouted down, it's just a different opinion that's all.
I have a lot of time for Dave Wood butvi feel that some of his Committee Members are letting him down.
I have no time whatsoever for Hampton, Paul and, Wilcox or their Muppet Preece.
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Post by Woodenose on Oct 28, 2017 8:05:39 GMT
So Tim Munslow expresses a view different to the main contributers on here and is immediately hung out to dry. Perhaps people are just getting tired of the trust. After all it is easy to criticise others, but let’s look at your achievements over the past few years: - You had members on the club board, some for a number of years, that failed. - You attempted to change the club’s constitution, that failed. - You put in for planning, that failed. And what have your pals on the board done? ....Brought the club to the lowest level of football ever.....Cannot be bothered to communicate with supporters.....No financal reports....And just a few of the boards friends stopped the constitution......I am sure there is a lot more that can be said,at least the trust have made an effort tp try and keep this once great club going,and it's not yet over.
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niels
City Legend
Posts: 1,741
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Post by niels on Oct 28, 2017 8:42:18 GMT
Amazing how an honestly held opinion can stoke the fires in the bellies of those of an opposing opinion. I seem to have been accused of supporting money laundering for a start, and Niels's analogy is totally incorrect: Lidl are in retail sales, and as anyone who's ever been in retail can tell you, there is no such thing as loyalty. Customers will vote with their feet if they can save tuppence. As for me paying for all exiled supporters travel that's just a fatuous statement. As for "If it wasn't for those true supporters who boycotted Hereford United, they'd still have Agombar and Lonsdale tearing the club apart." Nothing to do with the boycott: Mr Agombar failed to come up with the money to support his claims and the law took its course. The analogy with Wimbledon is also false: we are not (quite) in the position of having the club bought up and moved miles and miles away. Still, it HAS produced some lively debate! I am entitled to my opinion and I haven't heard much on here in response to the original questions I asked. If you don't believe me about the growing disconnect go and sample the opinions of the fans on the ground at the next home game. Tim I respect your opinion, although I whole heartedly disagree with it, so please tell me what your remedy is for the situation that this once sort-of-great club finds itself in.
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Post by Noboddy aka Lord Ealing on Oct 28, 2017 10:12:19 GMT
"There are far too many factions in this Club" What factions? There are those that oppose the board and those that don't. That's two.
"they are all as bad as each other" I remember hearing this when some of us were trying to raise awareness of the terrible deals Boddy and co were setting up for selling SGL. It's just another way of saying "I can't be bothered to get involved. Let someone else sort it out." This laziness allows the like of Hallmark; Boddy and Hampson to get away with what they do.
I was told the likes of Paul Curtis and Derek Jones were "the old guard". They weren't. Look what happened. Oxford may be right in wondering if it's worth still fighting this issue, but the problem with that attitude is that Hampson and co will get away unchallenged.
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Post by B*ue dragonstander on Oct 28, 2017 10:50:40 GMT
Oxford will return. At least I hope so.
Let’s not forget that the hope of the Board is to divide the fans and thus be allowed to carry on unchallenged and unchecked and to make those who oppose their Stalinist regime go away or lose interest. That is their only strategy whatever the cost to the results on the pitch. Now if what “true” supporters really want is what we have then they will be the laziest most apathetic bunch of football supporters in the UK as there is nowhere else where fans don’t want success on the pitch. If you back a regime with evidently zero interest in this then all is rosy. You are where you want to be.
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Post by Bonzo Bitburg on Oct 28, 2017 16:26:29 GMT
Football Supporters, support and watch their team when they Can, be it every week or when they Can, home or away. When all is said and done in my opinion it's all down to watching a game of Football, preferably in the City of Worcester but if not in Kidderminster or Bromagrove. I understand people being anti the Board, so if they have proof of wrong doing by Hampson & Co (whom I despise) then use this proof and do something about it, if not then why bother keep spouting accusations which clearly they can't prove? There are far too many factions in this Club, it will never unite. The Trust have missed a major opportunity to build a ground swell of support to oppose the Board over the last two seasons. What has happened here is that the vast majority of supporters are sick to the back teeth with all the bickering and now see the Trust as not being a viable alternative "they are all as bad as each other" is a phrase I hear often. For the Trust to Win over the supporters they need to stop being so argumentative, particularly with supporters and on such forums as this - if an individual doesn't agree with their point of view he shouldn't be shouted down, it's just a different opinion that's all. I have a lot of time for Dave Wood butvi feel that some of his Committee Members are letting him down. I have no time whatsoever for Hampton, Paul and, Wilcox or their Muppet Preece. Ok so what should the trust have done to build this groundswell of support since it seems the majority of supporters just want to go and watch the lads? and what should they be doing now to be considered a viable alternative. Also why do you expect there to be no bickering when the clubs lost it's ground, all the money, dropped three leagues and being run into oblivion. If you are happy to do nothing about it then fine but don't have a go at people who aren't. Well you can have a go at them but don't expect a free ride.
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Post by Tim Munslow on Oct 28, 2017 16:31:25 GMT
I don't have a remedy Niels: the whole situation appals me, but I'd rather spend my Saturday afternoons watching City than gardening.
If I had money perhaps I could do something, but I ain't!
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Post by Bonzo Bitburg on Oct 28, 2017 18:21:06 GMT
Do you see how having a side swipe at the trust and not coming up with any ideas at all might be considered... oh I don't... a touch annoying?
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Post by StopfordianWCFC on Oct 28, 2017 18:24:30 GMT
Its been a while since I have posted..... I'm another who now refuses to attend games in protest at what the board has done and is still doing. The absolute mismanagement has been scandalous and to top it all off by accepting the huge demotion without consulting with fans & shareholders (in a similar vein to the sale of SGL) was the final nail in the coffin. No AGM, no accountabilty and no clue. It is heartbreaking. The fact that I do still drop in to view this message board every now and then perhaps indicates just how difficult this divorce is proving to be for me - but I simply won't seek to sustain the current administration with any of my money or my support by 'cheering on the lads'.
With respect to bringing City home. Just what have the club tried to do to make that a reality? As far as I can see, absolutely nothing, other to stand by and watch a political carve up at the City Council prolong the agony of exile. If the club had truly engaged, then I am certain that things would have been quite different. For the board to effectively seek to sabotage matters at the last minute via the Parsonage Way debacle was a disgrace. Lets be clear, Parsongae Way is nothing more than a mechanism for City Councillor's to sweep the football club back under the carpet for a few more years and try to take the heat off when they lose the appeal - which they will. You watch, once the appeal is lost, they will then use the spectre of PW (which is a ludicrous location for a ground, utterly unsuitbale and more likley to fail on planning grounds) to seek to avoid dealing with confronting the fact that Perdiswell is, and always has been, the correct choice.
As far as I can see, community ownership at Perdiswell is the only viable option to return the club to its heartland and provding any chance of a future. Thats why I support the Trust and the stance it is taking. For the trust to give up now, would effectively be signing the clubs death certificate. As it is, the club is bleeding out and the board is wilfully letting that happen - indeed they are almost encouraging it by their inaction. Only this week Hampson made it clear that they are STILL losing money - some survival plan.
Supporting this rotten state of affairs is not for me. The team called WCFC is doesn't feel like my club anymore and whilst it continues to be run by the not-so-fantastic 4 and their vested interests, I don't want anything to do with it. The Trust is the only hope of salvation as they are the only credible resistance / alternative voice. Surely no-one, even the game attending fans, wants to continue with the current malaise?
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Post by wr4change on Oct 28, 2017 18:30:12 GMT
The Trust should, in my opinion, be more open and engaging with Supporters, if they do not then they are in danger of being seen as another "closed shop" like current Board.
How could this be achieved, well ideas could include :
(a) Open Trust Meetings, meet the Committee etc, this could be simply a couple of hours in a City Centre Pub on a regular date each month
(b) Drinks with the Trust in a bar near the ground before or after home games for an hour
(c) More frequent updates on the website or via Facebook or Twitter
(d) A Trust Fanzine, issued monthly as an alternative to a programme
Basically anything that engages with fans and makes them feel like they are included. I don't believe the odd forum once in a while is enough.
Now before anyone makes the point, I know all of the above takes time and money and people are donating their time for nothing, but if more people are engaged then this work can be spread across a wider audience.
Supporters should not be made to feel guilty for wanting to support the team or disagreeing with what certain people post in this forum.
In terms of creating a groundswell, the Trusts plans will need members who in turn will pay subs to part fund all of the above and more.
I'm not criticising the Trust, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but they could be so much more creative and hence effective.
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Post by The Verner on Oct 28, 2017 18:32:36 GMT
Football Supporters, support and watch their team when they Can, be it every week or when they Can, home or away. When all is said and done in my opinion it's all down to watching a game of Football, preferably in the City of Worcester but if not in Kidderminster or Bromagrove. I understand people being anti the Board, so if they have proof of wrong doing by Hampson & Co (whom I despise) then use this proof and do something about it, if not then why bother keep spouting accusations which clearly they can't prove? There are far too many factions in this Club, it will never unite. The Trust have missed a major opportunity to build a ground swell of support to oppose the Board over the last two seasons. What has happened here is that the vast majority of supporters are sick to the back teeth with all the bickering and now see the Trust as not being a viable alternative "they are all as bad as each other" is a phrase I hear often. For the Trust to Win over the supporters they need to stop being so argumentative, particularly with supporters and on such forums as this - if an individual doesn't agree with their point of view he shouldn't be shouted down, it's just a different opinion that's all. I have a lot of time for Dave Wood butvi feel that some of his Committee Members are letting him down. I have no time whatsoever for Hampton, Paul and, Wilcox or their Muppet Preece. This muppet is the only muppet that has raised a single penny of sponsorship since Rich Widd did 3 or 4 years ago. This muppet put together a document that forms part of the planning application for Perdiswell and was one of the first of 5 or 6 trust members that sat down and first spoke about going for Perdiswell and even meeting council officers. This muppet has been a Director on the WCFCST board for 6 years and have only recently given the role up. By all means call me a muppet, I dont care but at least I am doing something positive to try and keep the Club ticking (we all have opinions on this). People will ask am I Pro Club or Pro Trust, my answer is simple, I want WCFC back in our City, we have a live planning application with Perdy and theres a Plan B being worked on. I feel the only way WCFC can live to see Plan A or Plan B is to continue to try and raise money through sponsorship etc
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Post by Bonzo Bitburg on Oct 28, 2017 18:37:49 GMT
For those who are dissatisfied with the way the trust operates. Join it. Change it. Do it.
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Post by jupu on Oct 28, 2017 21:19:32 GMT
The Trust should, in my opinion, be more open and engaging with Supporters, if they do not then they are in danger of being seen as another "closed shop" like current Board. How could this be achieved, well ideas could include : (a) Open Trust Meetings, meet the Committee etc, this could be simply a couple of hours in a City Centre Pub on a regular date each month (b) Drinks with the Trust in a bar near the ground before or after home games for an hour (c) More frequent updates on the website or via Facebook or Twitter (d) A Trust Fanzine, issued monthly as an alternative to a programme Basically anything that engages with fans and makes them feel like they are included. I don't believe the odd forum once in a while is enough. Now before anyone makes the point, I know all of the above takes time and money and people are donating their time for nothing, but if more people are engaged then this work can be spread across a wider audience. Supporters should not be made to feel guilty for wanting to support the team or disagreeing with what certain people post in this forum. In terms of creating a groundswell, the Trusts plans will need members who in turn will pay subs to part fund all of the above and more. I'm not criticising the Trust, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but they could be so much more creative and hence effective. What if one were to replace the word "Trust" above with the word "Board?"
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Oct 28, 2017 22:18:38 GMT
One thing the Trust will never do is have meetings in pubs. That's more of a Supporters Club type of thing.
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Post by wr4change on Oct 29, 2017 9:23:25 GMT
Why not have meetings in a pub ?
This is the venue where most supporters congregate before or after games, and after all you are the "Supporters Trust
Seems you might view yourself as being too elite to mix with the rank and file
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Post by Noboddy aka Lord Ealing on Oct 29, 2017 10:41:40 GMT
The Trust is the rank and file. Where does this accusation of elitism come from? Are you just trying to stir up trouble?
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Post by jimbo on Oct 29, 2017 11:26:53 GMT
All of this Trust 'knocking' really grinds my gears. They all work tirelessly for all of us to achieve a community owned club & bring it back to Worcester ! I can understand some of the comments about the constant denigration of the Board of Directors & I agree it should stop. However, they have far more knowledge of the mismanagement of our club than most of us (including shareholders like myself). Perhaps a bit more PR work would be good, but you all need to be aware of the time these guys put in for no personal gain; so there is a limit to what they can do. I am convinced that they are the only way forward long term for a 'city team' to play in the city. It may be time for some people to realise that yes, it's good to go to watch a match but possibly at away fixtures, even if it means it's not affordable/possible every week.
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Post by Croc on Oct 29, 2017 11:42:52 GMT
I can guarantee that if the Trust never had existed and the club go to the wall in the manner it is now - you’d get the lot who are slinging mud at the ST to be the first to wail and moan of “Why didn’t anyone try to stop this?”
Damned if we do - damned if we don’t.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Oct 29, 2017 11:50:24 GMT
Why not have meetings in a pub ? This is the venue where most supporters congregate before or after games, and after all you are the "Supporters Trust Seems you might view yourself as being too elite to mix with the rank and file Business and alcohol are never a good mix, and the Supporters Trust is a business. I'd frown upon any business holding official meetings in a pub. I think you're getting a Supporters Trust , which is a governmental led initiative to help sporting clubs create a new form of business ownership at their club, with a Supporters Club.
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Post by jupu on Oct 29, 2017 12:24:03 GMT
Agreed, it might be a social occasion to bring fans together but not ideal for conducting business. Also supporters with children, or those who have to catch public transport, might struggle with meetings in a pub after games. But if the suggestion is to find a way in which supporters can meet, maybe in Worcester, I think that has some mileage and how and where is worth pursuing.
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Post by wr4change on Oct 29, 2017 12:33:57 GMT
I just think that the Trust Board should make themselves more accessible to all Supporters, after all it is these Supporters who are their target members.
I wasn't suggesting formal Trust Meetings being in the pub, but informally Trust Committee members could let it be known that they were available in a pub near the ground before games to get together with fans and talk through ideas etc.
You have got to remember that certain Trust Board members advocate not attending matches so access to them is very limited unless they themselves do some PR to solve this problem.
If you can't access the Trust Committee then they will be seen as viewing themselves as an elite, similar to the Board and I don't want that to happen.
If the Trust is the rank and file then mix with us and communicate so we all feel engaged.
Out of interest how many members does the Trust have ?
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Oct 29, 2017 13:12:56 GMT
All members of the Supporters Trust share the same goals and values. So talk to any one of them, you will get the same answers, and the same objective approach to questions raised. Yes, some of us aren't attending games, and some of us don't live locally, but we are like the Beach Boys, there will always be at least one ST Board member at every gig. And, unlike the club main Board, we are also available during the summer months when there is no football going on, in fact, that's when most of our work needs to take place, without the distraction of football matches. The Supporters Trust have been active and available for discussion at many fetes and events around Worcester, including Lyppard, and of course the Worcester Show.
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niels
City Legend
Posts: 1,741
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Post by niels on Oct 29, 2017 14:09:03 GMT
You have got to remember that certain Trust Board members advocate not attending matches so access to them is very limited unless they themselves do some PR to solve this problem. I do not know of any Trust board members who advocate not attending matches.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Oct 29, 2017 14:16:25 GMT
The Supporters Trust has never advocated that anyone does not attend games.
This discussion seems to have been swayed towards being about the Supporters Trust. It started with Tim Munslow making the bizarre suggestion that the only true supporters were those who went to games and paid their money. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the Supporters Trust.
Out of interest, is there still a Supporters Club?
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Post by wr4change on Oct 29, 2017 18:45:59 GMT
How many members are there in the Supporters Trust ?
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Post by wr4change on Oct 29, 2017 19:17:14 GMT
To be clear, I am not against the Supporters Trust.
I merely hold the opinion that they are not as accessible as maybe they believe that they are, and if this were improved then they could improve membership, funds and support for their proposals.
A variety of views and opinions improves debate and ultimately will Improve the success of the Trust.
Can someone from the Trust please advise me the current membership number ?
I joined the Trust some years ago, I have never subsequently received any request to renew this membership nor have I received any requests for help despite having offered.
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Post by downthelane on Oct 29, 2017 19:34:34 GMT
Answer the man, he’s only asked three times
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Post by cityforever on Oct 29, 2017 19:51:14 GMT
OMG!!!! The situation is simple. The Trust want my football club to be playing in Worcester again. They don't want to run the club and have been offered places on the board.
They are fighting against clueless self-centred individuals who have no idea go how to run a football club or business!! The. City will always attract 300/400 supporters until the money runs out or ends up elsewhere.
How far has parsonage way got?? Perhaps we'll find out at the AGM!!!!!!!!
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Post by downthelane on Oct 29, 2017 20:40:38 GMT
You have just highlighted a key problem. The trust want the club run in a different way, but they don’t want to run it themselves. Cake and eat it.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Oct 29, 2017 21:08:14 GMT
Actually, thats NOT cake and eat it. Cake and eat it would be to get the club running in a different way, and running it themselves. The Supporters Trust has always believed (like every other Supporters Trust) that the archaic business model at so many football clubs is killing them, and of no benefit to the people who make football clubs happen, the supporters. The model of individual ownership, or ownership by value of shares owned, means that the running of the business is down to a handful of people, who make bad decisions and have little accountability. It is also a model that falls out of favour with investors once a club starts failing.
The Supporters Trust believes that ,as a Community Benefit Society, the ownership of the football club should be shared equally amongst those supporters who wish to own a share, with each having equal share rights. It is for the company owners to decide who would run the business, and the ST would hope that, as a CBS constitution, they could attract the right people, with the right skill sets, to move the business forward, in a fully accountable manner.
Where exactly is the problem ?
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