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Post by Croc on Dec 18, 2017 21:05:42 GMT
So you would like questions and answers, here you are. Q Why support Parsonage Way over Perdiswell? A Perdiswell and Parsonage are both in Council ownership. Success requires. Willing landowner. The Council do not support the use of Perdiswell by refusal of planning (never mind the land debate) so that proposal will never happen. The Council themselves suggested Parsonage so that is far more likely to happen. Q Why are certain posters on here anti-Parsonage Way and finding fault with anything to do with it? A Because they have been involved with Perdiswell for a long time and see Parsonage Way as a direct threat to their personal efforts to get Perdiswell sorted. Understandable but a blinkered view. Q Why did the club leave it so late for a Plan B? A Because those involved with Perdiswell insisted the Board should not be seen to be investigating alternative sites as this could damage the chances of Perdiswell being successful. Parsonage is the Council’s suggested site, so can you really blame the Board for going with the preferred site? “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.”
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Post by B*ue dragonstander on Dec 18, 2017 21:10:48 GMT
The chairman made it very clear that the shareholders needed reassurance that the club would survive as it was his duty to act on their behalf. Really? If only that had been done.
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Post by rushwickdon on Dec 18, 2017 21:43:24 GMT
So now it moves on to the next stage- thinking that it is an achievement to both ask AND answer its own questions (with its own spin on it, naturally)
The removal of any doubt is complete........
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 18, 2017 22:01:27 GMT
Quite an achievement to ask your own questions and give the wrong answers ! She is so out of her depths
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harley
Squad Member
Posts: 243
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Post by harley on Dec 19, 2017 14:11:09 GMT
So you would like questions and answers, here you are. Q Why are certain posters on here anti-Parsonage Way and finding fault with anything to do with it? A Because they have been involved with Perdiswell for a long time and see Parsonage Way as a direct threat to their personal efforts to get Perdiswell sorted. Understandable but a blinkered view. Just remember that the offer of land at Parsonage Way is a political decision. As such it should be viewed with extreme caution from a business point of view. It may well turn out that Parsonage Way is a good location but challenging questions are not "finding fault" they are challenging questions that will require answers or solutions.
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Post by jupu on Dec 20, 2017 7:46:46 GMT
A reminder that the second consultation event takes place today, this time at the Lyppard Hub in Warndon Villages, running from 3pm until 9pm.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 20, 2017 10:23:52 GMT
I wonder whether there will be any more than a single architects sketch to consult about this time!
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Dec 20, 2017 18:14:09 GMT
Brooksider sadly not. There were the same illustrations ( not plans ) as at the first meeting. There are no details at all - eg costings, actual sizes,timescales etc, basically just this is what a ground could look like, presumably for those with little imagination. The architects who get paid anyway, were there to listen but not to really inform as there is nothing remotely definite to talk about is there ? Just hopes and aspirations and maybes, and a letter from Sixways stating that the matter of parking has been raised but nothing whatsoever discussed and agreed. Not worth the paper it's written on then.
There were no Council officials or Worcs FA people that I could see, although I think that local windbag councillor and friend to everyone Stephen Hodgson was there. Mark Wilcox was doing most of the talking, and Anthony Hampson was nervously pacing about the place. I explained my view that I thought that it was the wrong ground in the wrong place, would totally stifle any future ambition, and would be beset with problems , particularly that it would be unaffordable, and a traffic and transport nightmare, and that's from a fan of 40 years plus.
I did manage to ask Anthony why the club had not supported the Perdiswell bid, and he said " that the Council had told the club officially that they would never give the land to the football club ". So it's PW or a slow limp playing pub football towards going bust I'm afraid !
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Post by Woodenose on Dec 20, 2017 18:47:04 GMT
Brooksider sadly not. There were the same illustrations ( not plans ) as at the first meeting. There are no details at all - eg costings, actual sizes,timescales etc, basically just this is what a ground could look like, presumably for those with little imagination. The architects who get paid anyway, were there to listen but not to really inform as there is nothing remotely definite to talk about is there ? Just hopes and aspirations and maybes, and a letter from Sixways stating that the matter of parking has been raised but nothing whatsoever discussed and agreed. Not worth the paper it's written on then. There were no Council officials or Worcs FA people that I could see, although I think that local windbag councillor and friend to everyone Stephen Hodgson was there. Mark Wilcox was doing most of the talking, and Anthony Hampson was nervously pacing about the place. I explained my view that I thought that it was the wrong ground in the wrong place, would totally stifle any future ambition, and would be beset with problems , particularly that it would be unaffordable, and a traffic and transport nightmare, and that's from a fan of 40 years plus. I did manage to ask Anthony why the club had not supported the Perdiswell bid, and he said " that the Council had told the club officially that they would never give the land to the football club ". So it's PW or a slow limp playing pub football towards going bust I'm afraid ! Quite right about the Tory Council not gifting the land,but if the Council was to change hands then who knows
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 20, 2017 19:41:15 GMT
I did manage to ask Anthony why the club had not supported the Perdiswell bid, and he said " that the Council had told the club officially that they would never give the land to the football club ". So it's PW or a slow limp playing pub football towards going bust I'm afraid ! He just never got it did he? The Supporters Trust never ever asked for , or wished for the City Council to give them the land. I guess he didn't mention what other Directors did last week, and that is that phase 1 places a glass ceiling on the clubs future progression up the leagues, at least for another 5/6 years and probably more. That is what the Directors themselves have said. And that is before anyone even knows whether this plan is even feasible let alone affordable! We are already in a slow limp playing pub football towards going bust, and PW provides no way out of that. And again, this isn't me speculating, this is what the Directors were telling those at the consultation last week.
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Post by thesecondjack on Dec 20, 2017 19:54:54 GMT
Phase one would be suitable for the league above. That would indicate progression up the leagues. From my understanding, it'd be quite easy to then get it up to scratch to step 3.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 20, 2017 20:04:03 GMT
Only one possible promotion in the next 5/6 years, probably more. That's the reality set out by the Board of Directors, I think the Press Officer has no clue at all as usual. "It'd be quite easy to then get it up to scratch to step 3" Who fed you that baloney? Try money dear boy, try money. Its amazing how soon, even club officials forget that, we are where we are because we cannot sustain football further up the pyramid, and without a significant change to the way the company does business, and how it is geared, that ain't going be changing in the future.
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 20, 2017 20:11:32 GMT
I love the way that on the one hand, some of the club officials are saying that the scheme has not yet even been costed, yet others are saying that getting to the second phase would be quite easy! Someone has been drinking the kool aid!!
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oxford
First Teamer
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Post by oxford on Dec 20, 2017 21:27:19 GMT
Only one possible promotion in the next 5/6 years, probably more. That's the reality set out by the Board of Directors, I think the Press Officer has no clue at all as usual. "It'd be quite easy to then get it up to scratch to step 3" Who fed you that baloney? Try money dear boy, try money. Its amazing how soon, even club officials forget that, we are where we are because we cannot sustain football further up the pyramid, and without a significant change to the way the company does business, and how it is geared, that ain't going be changing in the future. Exactly. It makes very little difference where the games are played. As long as nothing changes off the pitch then the end is nigh. Most of our problems began when we were playing in the city, in a smashing ground ,so just getting back to Worcester is not suddenly going to make the club viable.
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Post by jupu on Dec 20, 2017 21:31:56 GMT
Promotion is not a given - as another contributor said recently "you win some, you lose some." This club has not been promoted to a higher league for 40 years. And would we be better staying where we are if it means less travel costs, lower wages, a chance to play at Wembley, more local derbies? In view of where we are I accept that having a 1,300 capacity stadium to play in makes sense. But as I've said before couldn't that be achieved elsewhere in Worcester? I don't think we're going to sail through the leagues like Hereford.
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Post by Croc on Dec 20, 2017 21:38:54 GMT
I really do hope that Anthony Hampson doesn't find himself "otherwise engaged" this week, and will be at the public consultation. The questions are mounting up, and the rest of the Board have all been unable to give any answers If he turns up and answers questions then I’ll donate £20 to the Supporters Trust. For those there today (I sadly had to work a 14 hour day) - is my £20 winging its way to the desk of the ST? I heard he turned up - but were any questions actually answered? Maybe Hampson’s Quisling Lapdog downthelane can help with that?
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Post by Croc on Dec 20, 2017 21:42:42 GMT
There were no Council officials or Worcs FA people that I could see, although I think that local windbag councillor and friend to everyone Stephen Hodgson was there. Interesting that small bit of your account. Was he in support of the plans to shove the club into a boggy, uneven field that would destroy an SSSI and ancient woodland and encroaching on a medieval church - thereby putting his party first - or against them - as a result of listening and representing his Parish Council, Ward and constituents?
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Dec 21, 2017 1:00:44 GMT
As with all sit on the fence politicians, he appeared to be asking questions but not venturing any opinion, although having said that, what is there to really comment on at this moment other than a wish list of aspirations and some drawings of what may or may not happen ?
I described him as a friend to everyone, as with the Parsonage Way development against the SWDP ie the proposed distribution centre further up PW, whilst he gave the impression of siding with the residents objections, when push came to shove, he had no influence at all in what happened. With both himself and his wife having cosy Tory seats in Warndon Villages to protect, I suspect more buttering up of the same.
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harley
Squad Member
Posts: 243
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Post by harley on Dec 21, 2017 7:58:04 GMT
The outline drawings looked like the architects had done the best they could with the land available, until of course further site investigation and consultation forces changes upon them. I asked about pedestrian access as I live close enough to walk to the site and was told they were looking at it with Highways, but the architect commented that they didn't want people parking on local roads (Rockingham Lane, Tutbury Row etc) and walking, pedestrians could use footpaths through the woodland, which I took as meaning that the designers would try to limit access on foot (pedestrians would also need to cross Parsonage Way, an unlit 60mph road)
But as Channel 4's Kirstie and Phil always say it's 'Location, Location, Location' and this site still doesn't meet that requirement as far as I am concerned.
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Post by jupu on Dec 21, 2017 8:39:29 GMT
Whilst it would be possible to walk through the woods, the pathways are not made up and don't have lighting - in fact I don't think there are any street lights along this stretch of PW?
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Dec 21, 2017 9:53:21 GMT
jupu you are correct - there are no street lights at all along this stretch of PW. The woodland pathways are unlit and muddy.
Phase 1 apparently has 90 car spaces. Players and officials will take up 25 ? That leaves 65 spaces. Let's just say the hard core 300 - 350 fans ( currently Bromsgrove attendees ) turn up. The car park full signs will be up an hour before the game starts. It will be total chaos.
So where do they park ? Maybe Sixways ? Maybe not ? There's a non existent bus service. Do they park as close as they can, walk over the roundabout by the Premier Inn, and walk on an unlit road with a 60 mph speed limit ? Let's also not forget with the Council approving plans for a 24/7 distribution centre 300 yards away, they will now have to dodge the additional HGV's ! That's all before any problems on the M5, where PW becomes swamped with traffic trying to get to the A38 ! Who will accept responsibility for the first fan knocked over ? Hampson ? Wilcox ? Layland ? Pinches ? Preece ? Hodgson ?
It's totally unsafe, unsuitable, in the wrong place, and not fit for purpose. Again it has all the problems Perdiswell hasn't !
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Post by thatloudbloke on Dec 21, 2017 15:49:52 GMT
jupu you are correct - there are no street lights at all along this stretch of PW. The woodland pathways are unlit and muddy. Phase 1 apparently has 90 car spaces. Players and officials will take up 25 ? That leaves 65 spaces. Let's just say the hard core 300 - 350 fans ( currently Bromsgrove attendees ) turn up. The car park full signs will be up an hour before the game starts. It will be total chaos. So where do they park ? Maybe Sixways ? Maybe not ? There's a non existent bus service. Do they park as close as they can, walk over the roundabout by the Premier Inn, and walk on an unlit road with a 60 mph speed limit ? Let's also not forget with the Council approving plans for a 24/7 distribution centre 300 yards away, they will now have to dodge the additional HGV's ! That's all before any problems on the M5, where PW becomes swamped with traffic trying to get to the A38 ! Who will accept responsibility for the first fan knocked over ? Hampson ? Wilcox ? Layland ? Pinches ? Preece ? Hodgson ? It's totally unsafe, unsuitable, in the wrong place, and not fit for purpose. Again it has all the problems Perdiswell hasn't ! 1. these are all unknowns as nothing has been set down as done 2. will it be a 60MPHthis all comes into force, going on what has happened to nunery way it will be 40MPH 3. will the council decide to have lighting installed 4. will there be a shuttle bus service in place for match days 5. most drivers do not use Parsonage way as a diversion route they use Pershore lane. 6. only unsafe if things are not put in place to make it safe 7. if fans get knocked over as you know it will be investigated & the driver will be deemed as responcible not the Directors or party deligates. 8. it is fit for purpose, as it would not be at this stage if that statement is correct. 9. where is the right place, everyone has a diffrent oppinion on what is right 10. Perdiswell yes good place but that has hit a massive brick wall that if ever will take alot of moving, the council dont want it there.
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Post by creaner on Dec 21, 2017 16:08:25 GMT
jupu you are correct - there are no street lights at all along this stretch of PW. The woodland pathways are unlit and muddy. Phase 1 apparently has 90 car spaces. Players and officials will take up 25 ? That leaves 65 spaces. Let's just say the hard core 300 - 350 fans ( currently Bromsgrove attendees ) turn up. The car park full signs will be up an hour before the game starts. It will be total chaos. So where do they park ? Maybe Sixways ? Maybe not ? There's a non existent bus service. Do they park as close as they can, walk over the roundabout by the Premier Inn, and walk on an unlit road with a 60 mph speed limit ? Let's also not forget with the Council approving plans for a 24/7 distribution centre 300 yards away, they will now have to dodge the additional HGV's ! That's all before any problems on the M5, where PW becomes swamped with traffic trying to get to the A38 ! Who will accept responsibility for the first fan knocked over ? Hampson ? Wilcox ? Layland ? Pinches ? Preece ? Hodgson ? It's totally unsafe, unsuitable, in the wrong place, and not fit for purpose. Again it has all the problems Perdiswell hasn't ! 1. these are all unknowns as nothing has been set down as done 2. will it be a 60MPHthis all comes into force, going on what has happened to nunery way it will be 40MPH 3. will the council decide to have lighting installed 4. will there be a shuttle bus service in place for match days 5. most drivers do not use Parsonage way as a diversion route they use Pershore lane. 6. only unsafe if things are not put in place to make it safe 7. if fans get knocked over as you know it will be investigated & the driver will be deemed as responcible not the Directors or party deligates. 8. it is fit for purpose, as it would not be at this stage if that statement is correct. 9. where is the right place, everyone has a diffrent oppinion on what is right 10. Perdiswell yes good place but that has hit a massive brick wall that if ever will take alot of moving, the council dont want it there. I have literally no idea what any of that meant!
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 21, 2017 16:47:13 GMT
"ne noctu dimittere cattus" as they say....."ne noctu dimittere cattus"
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Post by zeke on Dec 21, 2017 16:51:13 GMT
Basically NO.7 means the club take no responsibility whatsoever if a fan gets knocked down. The rest ?
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Post by jupu on Dec 21, 2017 16:55:31 GMT
I think I do understand the points being made. It's good to read a range of views and if I understand correctly the main point being made is that there are ways and means of overcoming hurdles. My point would be that even if they are achievable they come at a cost, none of which are known yet. I don't know if there's a bridge at PW but if so a lot of water has still to pass under it.
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Dec 21, 2017 17:02:15 GMT
You're not on your own there ! I could pick holes in this scattergun general nonsense all night but,
thatloudbloke - to just paraphrase what you've written in your own words
" 1. these are all unknowns as nothing has been set down as done ". Exactly, so why have a consultation when there's nothing definite to consult about ? Perhaps some people are just more impressed by coloured in, un costed, no measurements, illustrations than me ?
and as for
' 5. most drivers do not use Parsonage way as a diversion route they use Pershore lane "
Really ? So when there's an accident going north between Whittington and Sixways, everyone stays on the M5 for hours waiting to eventually get to Sixways, so they can use Pershore Lane when the M5 clears !!!!! Of course, they wouldn't get off at Whittington then ? With accidents up to Junction 4a, drivers get off at Whittington to avoid the instant backlog on the motorway, and use PW to get to Blackpole to cut across to the A38 or A449.
Sorry to have to say it again, but every problem PW has, Perdiswell hasn't .
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Post by Brooksiders Return!! on Dec 21, 2017 17:18:15 GMT
8. it is fit for purpose, as it would not be at this stage if that statement is correct. See how easy it is to fool gullible people? What is fit for purpose? It's not even past the architects initial sketches as yet! Here's something I knocked up earlier, its fit for purpose...obviously! Although Phase 1 will be more like this - and at least I've got floodlights on my training pitches! At the moment, no-one has a clue whether the site is fit for purpose, that is why the City Council has allocated £100,000 to assess the sites feasibility. If its not feasible, that'll be the end of the matter. If it is feasible, it's then a question of affordability, and if its not affordable, that'll be the end of the matter. You can tell that no-one at the club has a clue at the moment, as apparently last night, one of the Directors admitted that the timescale of 18 months IS unrealistic!
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Post by thatloudbloke on Dec 21, 2017 17:19:12 GMT
consultation An exchange of views in an attempt to reach a decision: A conference at which advice is given or views are exchanged a meeting for deliberation or discussion. so that is the idea of what the club & their planners have don given you what they are looking to do & asked for input from yourselves,
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Dec 21, 2017 17:24:56 GMT
Hey, I've had a lightbulb moment to prevent all speculation as to whether the at present un costed, unknown Phase 1 plus all the site criteria changes are affordable, plus knowing how much un costed further phases will cost ......
It's a rather old fashioned concept I know, but if Anthony really wants supporters to get behind these vague drawings...
The Board calls an AGM ( is lapdog Colin still on the case ) , produces full sets of accounts, and tells the shareholders how much money the club has, how much the drawings of Phase 1 would cost to build, the projected cash flow for the future, that sort of thing.
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