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Post by greenman on Nov 3, 2015 20:09:55 GMT
Here you go then a new thread with regard to our own club's finances. In answer to Jimbo I have requested a copy of the accounts from the company secretary and will follow up the request if I have not received them within 7 days. Any shareholder can make the same request.
With regard to the legal position to hold an AGM this again has been the subject of communication between myself and the aforementioned. It was agreed there is no definitive need to hold or not to hold one without a legal opinion on the matter. However it would make good sense to hold one to dispel the rumour and speculation that is currently circulating.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 21:36:04 GMT
Not holding an agm creates a dangerous vacuum where rumour and suspicion can flourish.
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dcx
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Post by dcx on Nov 4, 2015 19:33:08 GMT
Long time lurker here, but hopefully this is of some use.... Companies House is now free to access to the public, so you can get copies of filed accounts for any limited company you wish, WCFC Limited being one, if you visit the beta site. beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/Enter 'Worcester City Football' in the search box and there you go. You will note that unfortunately there is no Profit and Loss account included, which is the norm for Abbrviated accounts. Additionally the accounts for the last few years have all been filed late, so don't expect to see the 2015 accounts until March 2016 based on that track record. Doesn't exactly give a lot of confidence in the way things are being run.... |
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Post by citytoon on Nov 4, 2015 20:58:01 GMT
The reason why Perdiswell is so critical to the club:  Come on Council. Time to see some sense. |
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Nov 5, 2015 12:23:34 GMT
Having used the link, what an interesting read of " How not to run a business ". As dcx states, abbreviated accounts basically just give the headline financial performance for the year within the figures if you know what to look at, and not the P & L breakdown of income and expenditure such as ticket sales, sponsorship, transfer fees, players wages etc - all the things one would expect of a football club. As with all things financial, the devil is in the detail, and the lack of detail ( whilst legal ) is a convenient means of hiding the facts, and preventing questions being asked by shareholders, and even more so if AGM's are never held ( the only opportunity ). This has been a systematic trait of WCFC over many years, a tactic endorsed by Directors various, to allay shouts of " where's the money gone ". To those of us with long memories, the directors details / changes forms are especially revealing, as one remembers the exact individuals who ran the club into the ground ( to be more exact, the sale of the ground ).
The Directors " business plan " since the early 90's has basically been start with an overdraft of just over 100k against the one asset ( the ground value 1m ), and then lose money every year, funding that loss by increasing the bank overdraft ( against the asset ) until it reaches well over 1m, then revalue the asset so that the business can still be a going concern. The ground value is known to be understated in the books, hence the overdraft can keep going up and up, as the yearly losses pile up. Losses tend to vary between 20k and over 100k per season, but never mind, the ground value covers it. The only year there was a profit was in the year ended 31.05.2006 of £ 11,160. However, this was the year of the Huddersfield TV match ( Dec 2005 ), and this cup run was apparently worth 100 k plus, so without that, it would have been another massive loss ! Then the economy goes belly up, the banks get windy, call in their debts, and we're in it up to our necks. Land values collapse, a hurried and desperate " we'll take anything " sale is agreed, an EGM is called with " faces " drafted in to hijack the Board vacancies to prevent inquisitive new blood joining, it carries on getting worse, and the rats finally desert the sinking ship, resigning en masse, having led the club into near extinction. The current Board take over the remains of what's left.
This is why financial transparency is vital, and why the current Board should have held and should be holding an AGM asap. Why have they not ?
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Post by greenman on Nov 5, 2015 13:12:46 GMT
My main concern is because we still have no decision on Perdiswell, and even if we get the go ahead there will still be 2 to 3 years before the club can move in, what is the business plan and how affordable will it be to continue in the current vein. I have heard no statement from the Board as to our future which just lends itself to all the rumours that currently abound. And then to be told and I quote 'as things stand at the moment the arrangements which need to made for a general meeting are likely to conflict with the Club's involvement in the F A Cup and F A Trophy'. For goodness sake it has been five years since an AGM  In the absence of any communication from this current board then I fully support the proposals from the Supporters Trust if only because they at least have provided some dialogue and plan for the future. |
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Post by jimbo on Nov 5, 2015 14:44:49 GMT
Some of the problems apparently came out at the last trust meeting (which I was not able to attend so going on hearsay) that there was a massive disagreement between the club board & the trust board. If this is so, an AGM is a necessity in order for all shareholders to make an informed decision on what direction we should be backing.
Whilst knocking the club board for lack of communication I also think the trust board could be more forthcoming with regular updates. The statement that there is nothing to update is running a little thin as well.
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dcx
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Post by dcx on Nov 5, 2015 20:42:42 GMT
Agree 100% with this, pretty much nailed it. The only thing I would say is to not include even a summary TP&L account in abbreviated accounts is quite normal, I am a chartered accountant and the firms I have worked for have never filed client's accounts with these, its always just the balance sheet. However I don't doubt that the directors either then or now would ever voluntarily suggest the inclusion of a P&L - it wouldn't look good! With things the way they are, I give WCFC two years maximum in the current guise. Perdiswell proposal has gone to **** and just isn't going to happen, no one knows what is going on. From a football point of view, with Matt and Carl and the players on the pitch, the club is superb. Team spirit, squad playing for each other and the manager, good football (at this level). However from a business perspective, this club is going only one way unfortunately. Make the most of Saturday, could well be our last hurrah. |
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stamoo
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Post by stamoo on Nov 5, 2015 21:13:29 GMT
Well Dcx having made some good points you have spoiled it by saying "Perdiswell proposal,has gone to **** and just isn't' going to happen, no one knows what's going on".
If no one knows what's going on how can you state that it's not going to happen? I suspect that would be news to just about everyone, including the Trust and the Board.
This is just the sort of rumour and speculation that flourishes when there is no official communication.
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Post by thatloudbloke on Nov 5, 2015 22:09:46 GMT
agree with Stamoo on his last & not happy about the negatives, lets all stay positive & support the club fully, we are WCFC through thick & thin, we have been in this position or close before & are still going...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2015 18:20:18 GMT
"This is just the sort of rumour and speculation that flourishes when there is no official communication." Exactly why we need more official communication.
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dcx
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Post by dcx on Nov 7, 2015 21:39:38 GMT
Well Dcx having made some good points you have spoiled it by saying "Perdiswell proposal,has gone to **** and just isn't' going to happen, no one knows what's going on". If no one knows what's going on how can you state that it's not going to happen? I suspect that would be news to just about everyone, including the Trust and the Board. This is just the sort of rumour and speculation that flourishes when there is no official communication. I take your point, that was a comment born out of sheer frustration more than anything. I just don't have a good feeling about the planning application, I feel as though if the Council actually wanted this to happen they would have heard the application by now, IRC it was due in July this year, and now they are saying November at the earliest?! There have been significant numbers objecting, for non-sensical reasons, but I fear the Council will take these very seriously. The way I see it, is they believe the city already has two top level sports clubs in the rugby and cricket, and to lose the football club is ultimately no great loss to the city. Apologies for such a negative post but the situation gets me down - I feel like WCFC could be great but ultimately there aren't enough people that care deeply enough about the club to make that happen. |
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Post by thesecondjack on Nov 7, 2015 22:06:34 GMT
To bring a hint of happiness to this thread - I reckon after our share of ticket sales and the profit made from coach tickets - it will be about the same money as if we doubled our season ticket sales for the year... With a bit of hope a few of those who went to the Sheffield game will come back for repeat custom too! £££
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Post by greenman on Nov 8, 2015 10:19:59 GMT
Yes but to bring realism back to the thread, I too hope that it has improved our finances but I need to know what it is being spent on and how long the board feel it will last.
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Post by The Verner on Nov 8, 2015 11:25:23 GMT
Well Dcx having made some good points you have spoiled it by saying "Perdiswell proposal,has gone to **** and just isn't' going to happen, no one knows what's going on". If no one knows what's going on how can you state that it's not going to happen? I suspect that would be news to just about everyone, including the Trust and the Board. This is just the sort of rumour and speculation that flourishes when there is no official communication. I take your point, that was a comment born out of sheer frustration more than anything. I just don't have a good feeling about the planning application, I feel as though if the Council actually wanted this to happen they would have heard the application by now, IRC it was due in July this year, and now they are saying November at the earliest?! There have been significant numbers objecting, for non-sensical reasons, but I fear the Council will take these very seriously. The way I see it, is they believe the city already has two top level sports clubs in the rugby and cricket, and to lose the football club is ultimately no great loss to the city. Apologies for such a negative post but the situation gets me down - I feel like WCFC could be great but ultimately there aren't enough people that care deeply enough about the club to make that happen. Not entirely correct, as stated recently in the WEN the Trust have had meetings or correspondance with Sports England, Highways Agency and Council to help rectify the comments made during consultation. The council are not holding anything up. This is the one and only shot we have to get us back home and the application has go be watertight. If you tally up the publics comments there is a clear number for than against. This application is very much alive and is still progressing....hopefully we will see it in front of planners in December |
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Post by The Verner on Nov 8, 2015 11:29:17 GMT
To bring a hint of happiness to this thread - I reckon after our share of ticket sales and the profit made from coach tickets - it will be about the same money as if we doubled our season ticket sales for the year... With a bit of hope a few of those who went to the Sheffield game will come back for repeat custom too! £££ To bring a negative back in....Police entered the ground, all the other bills that will be taken out prior to seeing our share......how much will we actually see back. And if the hangers on who caused trouble and acted like morons come back it could cause us more negatives than positives...we dont need that minority |
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Post by alwaysnextyear on Nov 8, 2015 12:17:04 GMT
Sadly the policing costs of looking after the moronic hangers on will put a big dent in the match day share out of receipts.
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Post by thesecondjack on Nov 8, 2015 12:57:46 GMT
I fully agree, and the police costs could well cost us a fair bit BUT... According to my coach driver, who spoke to some Sheffield Stewards, it was the FA who paid for the high police presence, not the clubs (unless of course they paid for it initially, and claim the money back off us). You're right, we don't need the drunken fans causing problems. Cheering on the team is all well and good, but you don't need to be drunk to do so, and cost the club in the long run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2015 13:33:19 GMT
"This application is very much alive and is still progressing" that's good news Kev. But the confusion following the fan's forum remains.
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Post by creaner on Nov 9, 2015 0:09:35 GMT
"This application is very much alive and is still progressing" that's good news Kev. But the confusion following the fan's forum remains. Clearly there needs to be some transparency here on numerous issues. There were some concerns expressed about having meetings about the clubs future in the middle of the cup run which were taken into consideration. Trying to get things moving with fan ownership there was a plan to put together a meeting in advance of the much awaited AGM/EGM to explain the reasoning behind that idea. It's not clear yet when any AGM might be called. With the numerous questions arising in this forum and other places the Trust are looking to get a meeting organised sorted soon so everyone can get together for a fans forum. Once a suitable venue is booked then the details will be made public. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 10:54:01 GMT
The nervousness many of us feel is heightened by the sense that we've been here before. Poor communication; lack of financial transparency and good people leaving the club (namely Rich Widdowson).We don't have time to dither and divide, we need a strategy we can all get behind. Many of us believed there was one - now we're not so sure.
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Post by richwidd on Nov 9, 2015 13:52:14 GMT
The nervousness many of us feel is heightened by the sense that we've been here before. Poor communication; lack of financial transparency and good people leaving the club (namely Rich Widdowson).We don't have time to dither and divide, we need a strategy we can all get behind. Many of us believed there was one - now we're not so sure. Lord Ealing, I'm not on the Board of the Club, I haven't left the Country! It doesn't stop me from doing all I can to support the Club. The Trust strategy for moving the club forward which has been presented to Trust Members at several meetings over the last couple of years, all of which have had 100+ people present will very soon be put to shareholders where they will be able to make an informed choice of which path to take. There's still plenty going on such as this last last Friday which had been planned several weeks ago (regardless of the Sheffield game) - it was great timing though! www.facebook.com/midlandstoday/videos/10153696669944761/?pnref=storyThe Film was put together as we all know these days don't come round too often. Thanks by the way to everyone who made the effort to come & watch. The Worcester Arts Workshop were over the moon! |
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Post by greenman on Nov 13, 2015 12:26:28 GMT
Glad to see the Trust are holding a meeting regarding the future of the club. Shame that the Board do not have the same urgency to hold a AGM.
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Post by Tim Munslow on Nov 27, 2015 20:35:08 GMT
According to today's Worcester News they've set a date for 28th January. Into the bargain they've named five new board members, of whom Carl Heeley is - not before time - one.
Jeremy Pitt is also a new board member, and whilst I may not always like what he says at least he's a man to speak up and stir things up, and in that respect I think it's a good appointment. He'll probably drive all the other board members mad.
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dragon
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Post by dragon on Dec 18, 2015 20:09:24 GMT
I`ve followed the Club for 70 years and governance-wise it has always been a Fred Karno`s Army. Much as I have loved `The City`, the 1923 company should have been wound up years ago and replaced with an entirely new entity. The last 40 years, at least, have been a total farce with more cowboys in charge than seen in John Wayne`s movies !
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