camper
Reserve Teamer
Posts: 87
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Post by camper on Jul 8, 2014 13:48:16 GMT
As a regular reader of this Board I am certain that I am not the only shareholder who does. I would ask why we have not had an AGM since 2010 and why we have not had any Accounts published since 2009? If anyone knows the answer perhaps they can post it here for all to see.
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Post by The Verner on Jul 8, 2014 15:58:51 GMT
Wasnt this covered at the recent meeting at the Cricket Ground ?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 7:39:43 GMT
Camper, weren't you one of the directors who got us into this mess in the first place?
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dragon
First Teamer
Posts: 355
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Post by dragon on Jul 9, 2014 8:52:47 GMT
If camper`s assertion is correct doesn`t the Company stand in danger of `being struck off` ?
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Post by greenman on Jul 9, 2014 9:48:53 GMT
At least Archie, Camper is one of the few former Directors who still continue to put money into the club with his support.
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Post by kentenigmawcfc on Jul 9, 2014 12:34:19 GMT
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 9, 2014 15:12:45 GMT
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 9, 2014 15:23:00 GMT
Accounts for 2010, 2011, 2012 are also there, the next accounts are due at Companies House February 2015
All nicely up to date
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2014 16:18:54 GMT
Maybe Camper would like the accounts done the Brian Lancaster way. We could buy an old cupboard and stuff the receipts into that.
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camper
Reserve Teamer
Posts: 87
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Post by camper on Jul 9, 2014 18:28:11 GMT
Thanks for that information, it is a pity that the club could not inform the Shareholders of their existence each year. In previous years I believe every shareholder was notified and given access to a hard copy of the accounts, having been audited by a well known firm of accountants, by way of an AGM (The Lancaster Way) Perhaps they could be published on the website for us all to read.
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Post by The Verner on Jul 9, 2014 18:50:53 GMT
Even those shareholders sadly no longer with us had copies of the accounts back when Lancaster was doing them.....sadly votes to keep Shoddy and Co on board were also mysteriously made by those sadly not with us...cant think how.
In anycase Lancaster did a good job...Unfortunately it was in fleecing us !
I agree with greenman though, camper is the ONLY one who ever put money in...and still continues to do so upto this very day, and in my eyes shouldnt be put in the same boat as the cronies !
Accounts have been submitted as Brooky has said....the club are not hiding anything..its in the public domain for all to see
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Post by greenman on Jul 9, 2014 21:33:37 GMT
Excuse me Verner, Camper is not the only ex Director who has put money in, I personally hold £3000 shares and a season ticket.
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Post by The Verner on Jul 9, 2014 21:43:56 GMT
Greenman...not a clue who you are, so apologies to you !
I re-phrase..he is the only one from that particular board
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dragon
First Teamer
Posts: 355
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Post by dragon on Jul 9, 2014 22:14:16 GMT
I had overlooked the legislation that removed the requirement to hold AGMs - although if 10% of shareholders demand it they must be held. All the accounts seem to have been filed correctly and on time but why does the Board feel it preferable not to make them public?
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 9, 2014 22:42:15 GMT
The company is under no obligation to provide shareholders with a copy of the accounts. It is an expense which the club could well do without, printing 100's of copies of the accounts and sending them out to shareholders. Every shareholder has a right to request a copy of the accounts, and the company is obliged to provide them, and can charge a nominal fee for doing so. Probably a pound, which is the same as buying them from Companies House. I'd love to see the accounts publicized on the website, if only so supporters could see how difficult it is to run a small non-league football club, and the pressures the board and the management are under. Having said that, the accounts are made up for small business, which is little more than a balance sheet. What would be far more useful would be the publication of the Management Accounts, and a monthly P&L statement. Now that would make for total transparency, and I am all in favour of transparency as the club moves towards a community ownership model.
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 9, 2014 22:45:06 GMT
And I'm not going to have a pop at Camper, although he made his choice when the board split, and sided with Boddy & Co. That was a wrong decision, as has been seen by the demise of the club, but everyone is entitled to make bad decisions. As Greenman says, he is still involved in supporting the club.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 9, 2014 23:44:28 GMT
Verner, I think you'll find you are wrong in your assumption that camper is the only one from that era. I know greenman very well, he was also on the board during "the dark period", he was also one of those that tried to fight from within. There have been & still are too many people casting some really wrong opinions, possibly as in this case through ignorance of the facts about ex board members & the decisions they made. I will repeat, greenman fought for our club & I can't believe you DO NOT have a clue who he is !! Just a small criticism of the man is that he has a historic allegiance to a team which I never fail to joke with him about : what do you say mystery man greenman
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 7:21:45 GMT
Many of us know who Greenman is, and with others he walked away from Boddy and co. It's a shame others didn't follow them. If some are now "onside" then good. It's history now anyway, but an apology and acknowledgment of mistakes made would at least help to heal a few wounds.
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Post by The Verner on Jul 10, 2014 9:00:37 GMT
The only ones I can think of that stood upto that board were Paul Curtis and Derek Jones neither of which are in my mind stood celebrating with cheap champagne flutes full of lambrini on the SGL pitch !! These are the people I refer too as the old board.
Both Paul and Derek have poured cash into the club over the years and neither are cast in my mind as having anything to do with that board at that time.
I notice you didnt pick holes in my comments RE the votes and Lancasters part he played.
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dragon
First Teamer
Posts: 355
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Post by dragon on Jul 10, 2014 9:24:34 GMT
Just because `the Company is under no obligation to provide accounts` to shareholders does not prevent their publication via the Official Website. For decades the Club has been run like a Secret Service with only the dirty washing being aired in public.
If the `new` WCFC wishes to attract financial support from `the community` it will have to up its game a great deal to become successful. The publication of accounts would just be a start.
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Post by jimbo on Jul 10, 2014 9:45:18 GMT
As stated by brooksider, there is no obligation to publish & distribute the accounts & they should be accessible in th public domain. As for publishing them on the web site, I'm not sure whether or not that is necessary. However, publishing a monthly profit & loss statement seems to be a great idea although the state of the finances may deter rather than attract financial support from local businesses. What's the opinion on this ?
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dragon
First Teamer
Posts: 355
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Post by dragon on Jul 10, 2014 13:13:09 GMT
Sorry ! Obviously quite unreasonable for a shareholder to request sight of the accounts. not much changes, does it?
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 10, 2014 13:20:53 GMT
A totally reasonable request, make it to the company, and they are obligated to provide you with them. I have shares in many companies, I am not sent any accounts, although I have requested them from time to time. Jimbo - I think the low level of financial support from local business (with some very obvious exceptions) has little to do with the financial state of the company. In fact, the lack of financial support from the whole community suggests that many think the club is is a good financial position. I am sure there are many fans who think that SMD gave us all our money back!! Anyway, what I will do, is I will buy last years accounts and post a link to them for anyone to see them.
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 10, 2014 13:40:13 GMT
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 10, 2014 13:42:38 GMT
and yes, the clubs losses for the the year from 05-2012 to 05-2013 were just short of 200,000 pounds!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 14:07:53 GMT
Curtis and Jones were top, city, men. Sadly their walking away from the Boddy empire didn't ring the alarm bells it should have. I remember talking to fans, some who were from the supporters' club, at an away game and urging them to vote Hallmark's crew out and support Paul, Derek, Widds etc. Their response was to support Boddy etc. as "they were the best of a bad bunch". The truth had been twisted 180 degrees.
It just proves what Abe Lincoln said: "You can fool all of the people some of the time; you can fool some of the people all of the time; but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Unless they are in the WCFC supporters' club." He often left that last sentence out of his speeches, but he meant it.
As far as Dragon's questions are concerned, these are valid and worries like these need to be aired. The difference now is that there are answers. Queries like this don't just disappear down a black hole as they did in the past.
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dragon
First Teamer
Posts: 355
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Post by dragon on Jul 10, 2014 15:43:52 GMT
Brooksider, you are a gentleman. Thank you for the information. Of course, so-called `private`companies have no duty or requirement to publicise their accounts but WCFC, like all other pro clubs, rely on the public to keep them afloat. There is no shame in losing a few bob in providing the community with a product like football so why all the secrecy ?
Unless I am much mistaken, WCCC has always publicised it`s accounts on its website as well as distributing these to all members. The latter action may be seen as an indulgent expense but the web publicity costs nothing.
Thank you again !
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 10, 2014 15:56:15 GMT
Dragon I couldn't agree more, I remember the the former Financial Director of the company saying at the last AGM that management accounts would be puublished online, it never happened. I think if there is to be real change in the way WCFC is run, this kind of transparency is essential. You're spot on, if the community sees that the club is losing money, but can also see the efforts being made to keep the club running, both by the Board and also by supporters, then the community is more likely to respond positively. Apart from sensitive and confidential information, like individual salaries, then all other information should be made public. It will only help!
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Post by Down The Pan on Jul 10, 2014 17:43:34 GMT
It should be noted, and this is important! The club lost around 68,000 for the year to May 2012, and then a further 200,000 for the year to May 2013. So having been paid out by Careys, and repaying creditors such as the bank, the club had a P&L net profit of around 1.3 million, this is now down to just over 1 million. There will be bigger losses to the year to May 2014 I dare say, as income will have dropped dramatically. And people wonder why we will struggle to buy players?? I am sure there are fans out there who think everything is rosey now at the club! We are homeless, we are haemorrhaging cash at a massive rate, and there are some mebers of the Supporters Trust busting a gut to try and find a solution at Perdiswell. Its time more fans got off their arses and realised that its now Perdiswell or bust, and did something, anything, to help out!!
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